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Ford BOSS 500 to Power Force Funny Cars


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#31 OFFLINE   svttim

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:03 AM

Chrysler has done such an outstand job, they have gone broke twice. Outstanding record!

It is very possible that a company can "QUALITY" themselves into bankruptcy. Here's a little oddity for the folks that think Henry had the original idea for automatic transmissions.

Ford was so impressed with the Torqueflite that it attempted to quietly buy the rights to manufacture a sort of "copycat." The story, however, was quickly picked up by the automotive magazines. Ford reportedly had paid Chrysler $7.5 million, which was a big chunk of change in 1957! The direct result was the 1958 Ford built "Cruise-O-Matic" that was available on all standard Ford engines. It was not, however, a Torqueflite, but a Ford automatic built around the Simpson gear set. It was heavier, with more parts, keeping the Ford derived clutch band controls. Early models, especially those put behind "performance" engines liked to split the case, right down the middle! It was a problem that plagued Ford for a couple of years until the redesign incorporated into the 1961 models. In all fairness, however, in fleet applications, for the most part, the Cruise-O-Matic was reliable, and gave little trouble with regular maintenance. It certainly outshone Chevrolet's 1957 "Turboglide."

http://www.allpar.co...orqueflite.html


Ellis, Ellis :doh: Quality certainly was not the issue in the first bankruptcy. Poor management was.And all of the big three have suffered through that at one time or another. I was able to speak with one of the very few VP's at Chrysler after Iaccoca came in. He told several great stories, few that I remember but, apparently, when Lee came in, the was a mass exodous of VP's from 26 to 2 if I remember correctly. Now dont quote this story with numbers that are accurate but the premis is right on. When asked how many K-cars could be produced in a period of time, the plants reported they could make X ammount. Apparently Lee's response surprised them all when he said, ok but you better damn not make one more than that. I have driven both Dodge products and GM along with my Fords. IMHO, Chrysler quality is underated and in fact, I thought, very good. GM, no so much. I drove a friends 8 month old Chevy truck and it had more rattles than my knees (Im gettin older too!) and I was surprised how poor it was put together.

Lastly, I would say the best and most important (to me) innovation is the Mustang. And I have no clue on the connecting rod question
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#32 OFFLINE   ellis

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:33 AM

You know I'm simply amazed at how gullible most Ford fans are. NHRA provides correct info.

http://www.nhra.com/...01/classes.aspx
Top Fuel:
Among the fastest-accelerating machines in the world, 7,000-horsepower Top Fuel dragsters are often referred to as the "kings of the sport," and with good reason. They are capable of covering a quarter-mile in 4.4 seconds at more than 330 mph. Powered by a supercharged and fuel-injected 500-cubic-inch adaptation of the famed Chrysler Hemi engine, Top Fuel dragsters can burn up to 15 gallons of nitromethane fuel during a single quarter-mile run. Constructed of chromoly steel tubing and carbon-fiber composite, Top Fuel cars are 25 feet long and weigh 2,250 pounds in race-ready trim.
Funny Car:
Similar to their Top Fuel counterparts but with a shorter wheelbase and a carbon-fiber body that loosely resembles a production-based automobile, Funny Cars routinely run in the 4.7-second range and are capable of speeds in excess of 330 mph. Funny Cars are powered by the same supercharged and fuel-injected 500-inch engines as Top Fuel dragsters. Funny Cars are also similar to Top Fuel dragsters in that they do not use a transmission but rather transmit power to the huge Goodyear rear slicks through a multistage clutch assembly that is activated by timers.

Edited by ellis, 12 March 2012 - 05:41 AM.


#33 OFFLINE   bosses70

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

Most Ford fans are not gullible. We fully understand that the Ford Motor Company is a sponsor of JFR and that the motors, bodies, etc. are custom built/fabricated pieces, and yes the engine design does emulate the "old" Chrysler Hemi design. Somewhat similar to the NASCAR cars of today, the certainly are not "stock" cars.

I for one, am proud of the Ford sponsorship of JFR as it brings back memories from the Ford racing accomplishments of the 1960's; Lemans, Trans AM, SCCA, Cobra Jet - NHRA etc.. I am also proud of the fact that Ford remains a strong company that continues to support many forms of racing and is about to introduce a 650 HP street car. I too admire Chrysler and GM, but let's face it, they have not weathered the storm in the same manner as Ford. Both actually went bankrupt, one now owned by Fiat and the other still with a significant interest held by the US Government.

#34 OFFLINE   ellis

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

Most Ford fans are not gullible. We fully understand that the Ford Motor Company is a sponsor of JFR and that the motors, bodies, etc. are custom built/fabricated pieces, and yes the engine design does emulate the "old" Chrysler Hemi design. Somewhat similar to the NASCAR cars of today, the certainly are not "stock" cars. I for one, am proud of the Ford sponsorship of JFR as it brings back memories from the Ford racing accomplishments of the 1960's; Lemans, Trans AM, SCCA, Cobra Jet - NHRA etc.. I am also proud of the fact that Ford remains a strong company that continues to support many forms of racing and is about to introduce a 650 HP street car. I too admire Chrysler and GM, but let's face it, they have not weathered the storm in the same manner as Ford. Both actually went bankrupt, one now owned by Fiat and the other still with a significant interest held by the US Government.


Yes, I believe they are and it has nothing to do with financial problems; mostly the involvement in racing. In most nearly all of Ford claims they had little or nothing to do with the key elements that decided the race outcome.
In some way Ford has sullied every form of motorsports they have ever been involved with; examples follow.

In the highly lauded 1901 race (and only race Henry ever ran) between Henry and Winton, the Ford account indicates that it was billed and promoted as a race between only these two and drew a crowd of many thousand spectators. The truth is that it was promoted as a race among some 16 different auto manufacturers and at that time Henry was not one, his previous attempts having failed. My guess is that Henry heard about it and showed up with his car, hoping to get in the race. There were several preliminary or heat races before the main event that Henry did not race in, and many of the cars in the heats were damaged or had mechanical problems so that only three, including Henry’s appeared for the main event. One of the three dropped out, leaving Henry and Winton, and due to the extra time the heats had taken the main was shortened from 25 to 10 laps. Henry won the 10 lap event when the Winton car had engine problems.
In the Ford account it is mentioned that Henry's car ignition was the forerunner of today's spark plugs, but we know that Lenoir's engine of 1861 was spark ignited. Also, they claim that Henry's car set the stage for the Porsche due to its lightweight construction.

Take a look at what happened in Nascar.

In 1957, a young boy spectator was killed during a NASCAR race wreck and shortly the AMA, Chrysler, Ford, and GM all agreed on a self imposed exile which lasted until 1962, when Ford announced, "We're back into racing." If you believe Ford has been sitting on their hands all this time and not preparing for this comeback then your first name has got to be Edsel. Chrysler came back shortly, but GM/Chevy stayed out for several years. In an 8 year span Ford won 173 races to Chevy's 15. But fordracing.com doesn't tell us this. During this 8 year span, Ford drivers won their first ever championship. And remember the much ballyhooed Flathead V-8 won only 1 race while the lowly regarded 6 cylinder Plymouth won 10.

The Ford win at Le Mans.

In the late sixties, Ford laid claim to victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans after previous unsuccessful attempts using a moderate size 289 engine which they had copied from the small block Chevy. After the failed attempts, Ford reached in their storehouse of ingenuity and pulled out their best weapon; the oversized, big block 400 plus cu. in. monster, 3 1/2 times as large as the runner-up competition, with all the performance characteristics of a tractor engine, and won it easy enough.

Ford and Force in NHRA.

Here's a direct quote from John: "We can show just how much muscle Ford packs into the 7,000-horsepower Castrol GTX Ford Mustang Funny Car engine. Since 1997, Ford has been an essential part of John Force Racing. I am pleased and honored that we can bring my hot rod to the LA Auto Show and highlight Ford Racing's success." But John, it’s a Chrysler, not Ford engine, but the Ford sheep believe.

The Cosworth scam.

THE FORD COSWORTH STORY By Steffen Schulz
Founder and owner of the Northampton based company for racing engines` technology were the British engineers Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth. The former Lotus employèes had founded Cosworth - the name of the company is taken from parts of their names - in the year 1958. Duckworth had been in the leading position in running the firm.
They had begun with a single engine test stand. Even since 1959 there had been a relationship with the Ford Motor Company. Cosworth designed a light engine for the Ford Anglia. As the consequence Cosworth gave further development to that engine and became very successful in the lower categories like the Formula Junior.
The great boom came in 1967, after Cosworth had been given the order by Ford to construct a small, powerful Formula One normally-aspirated engine for Lotus. Ford had noticed the performance and the successes of the Cosworth designs so far. But the man taking the initiative was Colin Chapman of Lotus, who first took B.R.M. engines as an intermediate solution, but was in the need for a lighter design. At the beginning of the year 1966 Chapman discussed his wishes and ideas with the vicepresident of Ford Europe, Walter Hayes, having a fine dinner. One month later Hayes was able to convince Henry Ford II of the Formula One involvement at their Detroit headquarters and in spite Ford had constructed racing engines of their own in the USA, the Americans did not want to be involved in such an adventure in Europe. A contract was signed with the small but rising British engine company that should construct the engine under their own responsibility, only a few plans were given. The cooperation was not intended only for Formula One but also for other racing categories. The contract came into force on 1st March and 4 points stood in the centre of it. Ford paid the sum of £ 100.000 to Cosworth for the technical development. In return for that Cosworth had to design and to build engines for Formula 1 and Formula 2 under the name of Ford. The F2 engine should have 4 cylinders in a row using that one of the Ford Cortina as it`s base. The Formula 1 engine should be a 90° V8 of 3000 ccm with 4 valves per cylinder and a cylinder head made out of light metal. The engine should be ready for it`s first racing appearance in May 1967. Ford would take over the engine to give it to a team they have chosen.

How the Indy 500 started to become a yawner which no one cares about.

The Ford people just could not stand the name FORD not being connected with a 500 win even though the Chevrolet brothers had won it two years in a row using discarded Model Ts renamed Frontenac. This link tells of the start of the sickening of the 500. http://www.allameric.../dino/case.html

How Ford won the first ever NHRA national championship.

The History of Clifford Performance
Before founding Clifford Research in 1967, Jack Clifford raced a 1954 Hudson 308 flat-head 6 cylinder and became undefeated NHRA L/S champion in 1963.
The reason Jack chose a flat-head 6 was that Hudson Hornets started NASCAR racing back in the early 1950s at Daytona Beach, Florida. The Hudson flat-head 6 cylinder outperformed all overhead V-8s including Chrysler hemis in 1954, taking 27 out of 29 grand national races. Hudson then merged with Nash and that was the last of the champion 6s.
In 1963 Jack saw the potential of the 6 cylinder engine over V-8s in the stock NHRA drag classes. His Hornet powered Hudson won the L/Stock class at the Winternationals with a speed of 85.65 mph and e.t. of 15.77, a record that held for ten years until the class was outlawed. Amazingly, all of Jack's NHRA races were done BEFORE HEADERS, and all engines were PURE STOCK!
In 1964, while working as a mechanical engineer for North American Aerospace Division assigned to the Apollo Project, Ford Motor Sports Division hired Jack to beat the Chevaire race team. They were using a Chevy 327 V-8 wagon. The intention was to beat out the stock car manufacturers award at the NHRA world cup meet in Columbus, Ohio. Ford flew Jack and towed his 1954 "Hornet" powered 6 cylinder car to the meet. Ford knew they could not beat the Chevy race team without Jack's help since he held the class record too. His 6 cylinder flat-head blew the doors off the 327 V-8 Chevy by two full car lengths which allowed Ford to be #1 in the manufacturer's class. This really showed the possibilities of what a 6 cylinder flat-head could do, so by 1967 Jack made new history by using OHV sixes to go too

If the above was not enough take a look at this latest indulgence in using other peoples engineering and ingenuity and claiming it to be theirs.
http://www.thehemi.c...be4c378d24481df
Last but not least:
http://www.traces.org/henryford.html

#35 OFFLINE   bosses70

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:39 PM

Gee, it is quite obvious you have a problem with Ford. Too bad, life is to short to hold such grudges. I appreciate and have owned muscle cars from all of the big three and despite your very in-depth research into racing history am still a Ford fan. I simply do not have the time to research the topic as you do. Time for me to move on, God Bless and enjoy your car, whatever brand it happens to be.

#36 ONLINE   ilmor

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:58 PM

Love those "new member" posts!
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#37 OFFLINE   bosses70

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:07 PM

I have monitored this site for quite some time. As I also monitor the Ford GT site. I first saw your post regarding the BOSS 500, quite a while ago, and actually agreed with it. Your latest post prompted me to sign up and reply. That explains the new member status. I live in NV and would welcome you anytime to visit talk cars and see some of my new and old Fords, if you have any interest?

#38 OFFLINE   ellis

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:06 PM

BOSSES70, I truly appreciate your reply, especially the God Bless part. I'll be 80 in May and I have seen and done a few things. Oh by the way, check this out.

http://www.thehemi.c...84f3a7bd6e55a9b

#39 OFFLINE   svttim

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

BOSSES70, I truly appreciate your reply, especially the God Bless part. I'll be 80 in May and I have seen and done a few things. Oh by the way, check this out.

http://www.thehemi.c...84f3a7bd6e55a9b


Your slant on history based on internet bull is interesting. Its all someones opinion. Im not sure why you bother with this site. You obviously hate Ford, so much so, you seem to have made it a career to annoy those of us who prefer a brand who didnt have to take money from taxpayers to continue in buisness. Im sure, some how, the Mustang is a copy of the Camaro, The Baracuda is America's pony car and Henry Ford stole the company from Luis Chevrolet. My god man, they all have rods, crankshafts and heads. In 1902, Léon Levavasseur took out a patent on a light but quite powerful gasoline injected V8 engine. So, they all copied this dude. So your almighty Chrysler is as much as a fraud as you claim Ford to be. Oh, the Hemi, Hemispherical cylinder heads have been used in some engines since they were first used by the Belgian car maker Pipe in 1905. Chrysler Fraud!!!! I have heard of revisionist history in politics, never seen it in this venue.

Oh, by the way, I believe Carrol could tell you a thing or two about Lemans. Chrysler didnt win it, Ford did, by the rules. Nothing is funnier than people the complain about a racer that wins while legal. What did you expect, they would go there to loose? And in NASCAR, you dont want to mention how GM was secretly cheating on the AMA ban.

(." But John, it’s a Chrysler, not Ford engine, but the Ford sheep believe) So, your saying Chrysler built the Boss 500? We all know that answer.

I know you have seen a lot, and for that you have my respect. But, when you come into a predominatly Ford enthusiast site and, throw stones at that company, including Carroll Shelby, who is largely responsible for the Victory in Lemans, you loose all credibility
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