38 replies to this topic

[twobjshelbys]

I saw a link to this today on the Club Cobra forum.

My wife is making a library run.  They just got it and I'm first on the list!

Article from NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.c...baime.html?_r=1

[clark17357]

http://www.teamshelb...p...c=44616&hl=

Jim

[moabman]

As a boy of 13, I followed the Ford versus Ferrari story religiously. I got hooked when I watched a documentary featuring Phil Hill and the new Ford GT40 in it's initial year of campaigning.

Fast forward to Le Mans 2009 and David Hobbs was telling stories about Dan Gurney saying that he had been paired with Mr A. J. F*^%ing Foyt to drive the MKIV pictured in my avatar. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Gurney and his remark to David which I'm sure he NEVER meant to be aired in public, might reflect his frustration in finishing 2nd to Foyt just days earlier at the Indianapolis 500.

Mr. Shelby was asked about the strange pairing of Foyt and Gurney and commented on how hard it was for them to agree on the setup for the car. Apparently, each driver would take the car out for a couple of laps and demand that the car be totally changed. It went on until the chief mechanic for the car gave up and asked Mr. Shelby what to do. Mr. Shelby told them to just wait until the end of practice and then duplicate the setup of one of the other GT40 MKIV's.

The friction continued into the race itself with Dan missing some of his night-time stints at the wheel because he felt below par. This resulted in A. J. being at the wheel at the end of the race and there is a famous picture of Dan jumping on the car after A. J. took the checkered flag.

There is apparently nothing like winning to ease the tensions and Dan started the tradition of spraying the crowd and others with champagne at the post race celebration.

Dan went on to win the British Grand Prix a few days later in one of his own American Eagles and he is still the only American to win a Grand Prix driving an American car.

Many people say Ford won by throwing money at it. My comment is sure, they spent a ton of money. I think people lose sight of the fact that Ford had to spend lot's of money to catch up in just a few years to the expertise that Ferrari had developed over many years and that Ferrari had also spent millions over the many years that they were racing.

[twobjshelbys]

moabman, on Jul 1 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

As a boy of 13, I followed the Ford versus Ferrari story religiously. I got hooked when I watched a documentary featuring Phil Hill and the new Ford GT40 in it's initial year of campaigning.

Fast forward to Le Mans 2009 and David Hobbs was telling stories about Dan Gurney saying that he had been paired with Mr A. J. F*^%ing Foyt to drive the MKIV pictured in my avatar. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Gurney and his remark to David which I'm sure he NEVER meant to be aired in public, might reflect his frustration in finishing 2nd to Foyt just days earlier at the Indianapolis 500.

Mr. Shelby was asked about the strange pairing of Foyt and Gurney and commented on how hard it was for them to agree on the setup for the car. Apparently, each driver would take the car out for a couple of laps and demand that the car be totally changed. It went on until the chief mechanic for the car gave up and asked Mr. Shelby what to do. Mr. Shelby told them to just wait until the end of practice and then duplicate the setup of one of the other GT40 MKIV's.

The friction continued into the race itself with Dan missing some of his night-time stints at the wheel because he felt below par. This resulted in A. J. being at the wheel at the end of the race and there is a famous picture of Dan jumping on the car after A. J. took the checkered flag.

There is apparently nothing like winning to ease the tensions and Dan started the tradition of spraying the crowd and others with champagne at the post race celebration.

Dan went on to win the British Grand Prix a few days later in one of his own American Eagles and he is still the only American to win a Grand Prix driving an American car.

Many people say Ford won by throwing money at it. My comment is sure, they spent a ton of money. I think people lose sight of the fact that Ford had to spend lot's of money to catch up in just a few years to the expertise that Ferrari had developed over many years and that Ferrari had also spent millions over the many years that they were racing.

I think the GT40 is one of the most beautiful cars ever made.  But I still think that the Cobra - both roadster and Daytona Coupe - were the Miracle Machines.  It was the group of hot rodders that did it.  Sort of like Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland - "Let's put a show on in our dad's barn".

[09 Red GT500]

"Go Like Hell..." was an enjoyable read for me.  I knew many of the names, but just a bit young to know the history from the 60s.  Recommended reading for those interested in racing in the 60s.  Different world from today...

[shelbymotorsports]

My copy has been sitting here for several weeks. I understand this book is one of those that you can't put down once you start reading it so I'm waiting for some down time to dive in.

Steve

[falcongtho3]

None, and I mean none, of the local bookstores have a copy, so Amazon is scheduled to deliver mine on Saturday. This is one book I am truly looking forward to not putting down. I don't care that I know how it turns out. I've probably seen all of the pictures. Still don't care. The write ups have been tremendous. Can't wait to re-live the glory!

[twobjshelbys]

shelbymotorsports, on Jul 8 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

My copy has been sitting here for several weeks. I understand this book is one of those that you can't put down once you start reading it so I'm waiting for some down time to dive in.

Steve

Steve, have you watched the show from Richard Symons? It's called "The Snake and The Stallion" on the DVD now, but was originally broadcast as "The Cobra Ferrari Wars".

It has the most wonderful opening.

The words are something like this - trying to transcribe:
    
Building a race car is an art form like no other.  It has a clearly defined purpose -- to win.   The skills, passion and artistry of many craftsmen are combined to create an object of great beauty.    But if it doesn't win you may as well hang it in an art gallery.  Many have tried to master this elusive art.  Few have succeeded.   Because winning takes something more.  In the battle that was the Cobra - Ferrari wars, that something was personal."

It is "the story of two cars, two men, and one race."




Buy it, form spiritlevelfilm.com, you won't be disappointed
.

[falcongtho3]

Just finished this book and it is well worth the time and money. As a lifelong Ford fan, I've heard this story countless times, but this book fills in so many holes, it gives huge insight in to the Ford buyout of Ferrari and it brings the drivers you know closer than you ever thought you'd know them.
Buy it, read it, relive the history.

[twobjshelbys]

I'm nearing the end.  Ken Miles just augered in.  This was sad.   But here are some words to live by:

... As one obit put it, "We don't have to feel sorry for people who choose to live dangerously, and lose.  So the bull wins one.  The matador must take the risk.  The closer he plays to the horn, the better the show...  Well, Miles, good show".

Everyone should live their lives, and especially, their careers, this way.   I've taken chances.  Lost some, won more.  

So long Ken, it was a good show.

Edited by twobjshelbys, 28 July 2009 - 06:48 PM.

[twobjshelbys]

By the way, this book has been optioned for film rights.   I know who my secret cast list is, who's yours?

Somehow, James Garner has to be in this movie.

[moabman]

twobjshelbys, on Jul 28 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

I'm nearing the end.  Ken Miles just augered in.  This was sad.   But here are some words to live by:

... As one obit put it, "We don't have to feel sorry for people who choose to live dangerously, and lose.  So the bull wins one.  The matador must take the risk.  The closer he plays to the horn, the better the show...  Well, Miles, good show".

Everyone should live their lives, and especially, their careers, this way.   I've taken chances.  Lost some, won more.  

So long Ken, it was a good show.

I've ordered the book but it won't be here for another couple of days. Did they tell the story about how Ken Miles didn't get to win the 1966 Le Mans? There is something fishy about that story. FIA says they told Ford how they would calculate the winner and that Ford decided to go for the photo op. I just have a problem believing that.

Edited by moabman, 28 July 2009 - 07:19 PM.

[twobjshelbys]

moabman, on Jul 28 2009, 08:54 PM, said:

I've ordered the book but it won't be here for another couple of days. Did they tell the story about how Ken Miles didn't get to win the 1966 Le Mans? There is something fishy about that story. FIA says they told Ford how they would calculate the winner and that Ford decided to go for the photo op. I just have a problem believing that.

Yes it does, in some detail.  It was because they had an agreement for a "tie" but then they said the McClaren car had started later and since he was at the front, he won.  The words were by 20'.  It might have been more than that but it wasn't much.  The Conspiracy Theory, mentioned, is that the French eradicated a Miles lap.  

I still like the photo of the finish.   AJ's book shows the frame with all 4 GT40's in the frame, the conventional one shows only three:

http://www.blogcdn.c...dgtlemans66.jpg

Read it.  The writing is very tight.   The facts are all there - about 1/8 of the book is footnotes with facts.

Edited by twobjshelbys, 28 July 2009 - 08:12 PM.

[falcongtho3]

moabman, on Jul 28 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

I've ordered the book but it won't be here for another couple of days. Did they tell the story about how Ken Miles didn't get to win the 1966 Le Mans? There is something fishy about that story. FIA says they told Ford how they would calculate the winner and that Ford decided to go for the photo op. I just have a problem believing that.

I wasn't going to answer this, but since someone else did I'll just say that it not only covers that but also how it hung over him for the rest of his short life.
I do wish there were more photos, as those included were mostly those that all of us with an intererst in the subject have alreadt seen.

As to the movie casting idea...hmmm. I'll have to give that some thought...

[moabman]

It would be nice if someone could get Carroll to give his recollection of this story. He should know, he was managing one of the teams. Hello - mods?


edit:

Peter Coyote for Carroll Shelby

because I'm from Houston, I've always liked A. J. and was thrilled by the 67 results but I have also admired Ken Miles who did so much for the Shelby & the Ford program.

Edited by moabman, 29 July 2009 - 08:24 AM.

[falcongtho3]

One thing that did not get covered, and if I am wrong or pushing an urban legend please correct me, but I seem to recall somethign about HF II sending a jet from Detroit to France carrying a load of windshields (only) for the GT40s due to an issue wiht the ones on the cars. Apparently that was the straw that broke the camels (financial) back.
I agree that hearing Carrolls recollections about that particular race would be a serious bonus for fans. I though that the minimal coverage of the Cobra efforts (Daytona coupes, really) were pushed to the back, although I understand that this was the fight between the GT40 and the 'red' cars. But it is  ashame that so few know that the cars that got this country its first world championship in international racing was the mighty (yet small block powered) Daytona Coupe.

[twobjshelbys]

shelbymotorsports, on Jul 8 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

My copy has been sitting here for several weeks. I understand this book is one of those that you can't put down once you start reading it so I'm waiting for some down time to dive in.

Steve

Steve, have you read it yet?  We'll have a test in two weeks :)O

[twobjshelbys]

falcongtho3, on Jul 29 2009, 07:05 PM, said:

One thing that did not get covered, and if I am wrong or pushing an urban legend please correct me, but I seem to recall somethign about HF II sending a jet from Detroit to France carrying a load of windshields (only) for the GT40s due to an issue wiht the ones on the cars. Apparently that was the straw that broke the camels (financial) back.
I agree that hearing Carrolls recollections about that particular race would be a serious bonus for fans. I though that the minimal coverage of the Cobra efforts (Daytona coupes, really) were pushed to the back, although I understand that this was the fight between the GT40 and the 'red' cars. But it is  ashame that so few know that the cars that got this country its first world championship in international racing was the mighty (yet small block powered) Daytona Coupe.

This book was about the GT40.  The Cobra/Coupe and the GT class is a totally independent story.  Peter Brock is not even mentioned in this book (OK, I'd have to check the footnotes, but I'm pretty sure, and if so he is only a footnote).  For that see the "Snake and Stallion" thread.

Yeah Bob Bondurant!

The book has been optioned for a movie.  I can't wait!

[svttim]

Looks like a book Ill have to pick up after Im done with School. I dont want to be interupted with studies

[moabman]

My copy just arrived yesterday along with David Friedman's book called Shelby GT40

Freidman's book is mainly pictures with captions so I browsed it last night. According to Freidman, the windshield story is confirmed. They were tempered poorly and started to suddenly crack into many small pieces when the aerodynamic pressure increased at highspeeds during testing at Le Mans. It just said that they flew over untempered versions of the windshield but didn't say how they were flown. It also didn't mention that it was inordinately expensive.

There was also a direct quote by Carroll Shelby about the finishing order of the 66 Le Mans that was interesting (don't want to spoil the books for anyone but if your interested, PM me and I'll tell you what Carroll is quoted saying about the finishing order).

I just started Go like hell and can confirm it is well written but I'm not to the interesting part yet.

Edited by moabman, 05 August 2009 - 09:12 AM.