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Reische 170 Datalog Results


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#1 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:59 AM

The results are in. I did 5 minute data logs on the NAPA 180 and then the new Reische 170 thermostats. Conditions were similar, approx. 100 deg ambient temp and 7% humidity. I recorded the data in all kinds of driving (freeway, idling, suface streets). Fans were set for 188/198 for the NAPA and 182/188 for the Reische.

NAPA
Low IAT: 110
High IAT: 128
Average IAT: 119

Low ECT: 184
High ECT: 192
Avg. ECT: 188

Reische
Low IAT:98
High IAT:106
Avg IAT: 102

Low ECT: 176
High ECT: 182
Avg ECT: 179


Conclusion:
The Reische thermostat works as advertised. Average drop in ECT of 9* in the HOT So. Nevada weather is impressive. I would recommend this mod to anyone.

Joe

Edited by mullens, 10 September 2009 - 10:00 AM.

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#2 OFFLINE   mrfarmdog

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:05 AM

So where do you get one?

#3 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:07 AM

So where do you get one?

Reische or Lethal.

Edited by mullens, 10 September 2009 - 10:08 AM.

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#4 OFFLINE   jared@lethal

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:15 AM

Reische or Lethal.


As of Tuesday we're the exclusive distributor for all of Reische Performance's thermostats. We'll be handling the distribution for him from here on out so if you'd like to order one please feel free to give us a call.

We look forward to assisting you.

Thanks, Jared
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#5 OFFLINE   Joker45

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:27 AM

Good info. Thanks for sharing it with us.
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#6 OFFLINE   Secondo

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:34 AM

Good info. Thanks for sharing it with us.

+1 thanks for the work to get the data for us curious GT500 owners
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#7 OFFLINE   MY500SS

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:44 AM

Nice work Joe, thanks.
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#8 OFFLINE   jared@lethal

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:46 AM

The results are in. I did 5 minute data logs on the NAPA 180 and then the new Reische 170 thermostats. Conditions were similar, approx. 100 deg ambient temp and 7% humidity. I recorded the data in all kinds of driving (freeway, idling, suface streets). Fans were set for 188/198 for the NAPA and 182/188 for the Reische.

NAPA
Low IAT: 110
High IAT: 128
Average IAT: 119

Low ECT: 184
High ECT: 192
Avg. ECT: 188

Reische
Low IAT:98
High IAT:106
Avg IAT: 102

Low ECT: 176
High ECT: 182
Avg ECT: 179


Conclusion:
The Reische thermostat works as advertised. Average drop in ECT of 9* in the HOT So. Nevada weather is impressive. I would recommend this mod to anyone.

Joe



Joe,

Thanks for posting your results. Joel did a great job with this product and I'm glad you're happy with how it performs.

Jared
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#9 OFFLINE   Joker45

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:56 AM

Okay Jared,

I just placed my order for one.

Thanks.
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#10 OFFLINE   Torch40

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 11:15 AM

Those are really interesting numbers if you think about it. You would think that the high ECT would even out and eventually be the same regardless of the t-stat. Is the stock t-stat restricted by design?
Looks like a pretty good mod for the money.

I'm assuming ECT = engine coolant temp and IAT = intake air temp.

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#11 OFFLINE   03 DSG Snake

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 05:29 PM

Numbers are very similar to what I was seeing during testing. This thing really works great in the SoCal heat. :happy feet:
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#12 OFFLINE   Revan Racing

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:12 PM

The results are in. I did 5 minute data logs on the NAPA 180 and then the new Reische 170 thermostats. Conditions were similar, approx. 100 deg ambient temp and 7% humidity. I recorded the data in all kinds of driving (freeway, idling, suface streets). Fans were set for 188/198 for the NAPA and 182/188 for the Reische.

NAPA
Low IAT: 110
High IAT: 128
Average IAT: 119

Low ECT: 184
High ECT: 192
Avg. ECT: 188

Reische
Low IAT:98
High IAT:106
Avg IAT: 102

Low ECT: 176
High ECT: 182
Avg ECT: 179


Conclusion:
The Reische thermostat works as advertised. Average drop in ECT of 9* in the HOT So. Nevada weather is impressive. I would recommend this mod to anyone.

Joe


Am I missing something? :headscratch:

How does a Thermostat Reduce IAT1? Ambient Inlet Temperature which is read at the MAF?

Also, why would you change the fan settings which directly affect the ECT due to the heat extraction of the radiator? Why wouldn't you test the same fan speed settings in the data logs with different products? You've got the low speed fan coming on earlier and the high speed fan coming on earlier with the Reische Thermostat. Of course your temperatures are going to be different. Your puller fan is engaging earlier.

How about testing both products on the same day with the same fan speed settings?

Am I missing something?
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#13 OFFLINE   Kostas

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:19 PM

Am I missing something? :headscratch:

How does a Thermostat Reduce IAT1? Ambient Inlet Temperature which is read at the MAF?

Also, why would you change the fan settings which directly affect the ECT due to the heat extraction of the radiator? Why wouldn't you test the same fan speed settings in the data logs with different products? You've got the low speed fan coming on earlier and the high speed fan coming on earlier with the Reische Thermostat. Of course your temperatures are going to be different. Your puller fan is engaging earlier.

How about testing both products on the same day with the same fan speed settings?

Am I missing something?

Hey i just noticed that (IAT1) I agree about the fan settings. Also 5 minute datalogging runs???
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#14 OFFLINE   jcthorne

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:07 AM

Those are really interesting numbers if you think about it. You would think that the high ECT would even out and eventually be the same regardless of the t-stat. Is the stock t-stat restricted by design?
Looks like a pretty good mod for the money.

I'm assuming ECT = engine coolant temp and IAT = intake air temp.


This one I can answer, since the new stat properly closes the bypass port in the thermostat housing, it has effectivly increased the capacity of the radiator in addtion to opening sooner.
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#15 OFFLINE   Torch40

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 10:28 AM

This one I can answer, since the new stat properly closes the bypass port in the thermostat housing, it has effectivly increased the capacity of the radiator in addtion to opening sooner.


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#16 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:48 PM

Am I missing something? :headscratch:

How does a Thermostat Reduce IAT1? Ambient Inlet Temperature which is read at the MAF?

Also, why would you change the fan settings which directly affect the ECT due to the heat extraction of the radiator? Why wouldn't you test the same fan speed settings in the data logs with different products? You've got the low speed fan coming on earlier and the high speed fan coming on earlier with the Reische Thermostat. Of course your temperatures are going to be different. Your puller fan is engaging earlier.

How about testing both products on the same day with the same fan speed settings?

Am I missing something?

1) I never said IAT1 was affected by the thermostat. I included it for info.

2) I don't see your logic in the fan question. You can't test two different temp thermostats with the same fan settings. 180's will open at about 180-183. If you set the fans at the same temp as the 170 they will run constantly and you still won't go below 180, because the stat will start closing at that temp. Remember rated temp of the thermostat is the the minimum it will run, not the maximum. So, in theory you can set the fans at 160 or 150 and a 180 will still run at 180.

Maybe I'm missing something..

Edited by mullens, 11 September 2009 - 05:50 PM.

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#17 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:53 PM

Hey i just noticed that (IAT1) I agree about the fan settings. Also 5 minute datalogging runs???

5 minutes did not include warm up. It was 5 minutes at operating temperature, which was sufficient to gauge thermostat performance. You are welcome to do a 30 minute data log. I will be happy to see the results.

Edited by mullens, 11 September 2009 - 05:57 PM.

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#18 OFFLINE   Kostas

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:49 PM

5 minutes did not include warm up. It was 5 minutes at operating temperature, which was sufficient to gauge thermostat performance. You are welcome to do a 30 minute data log. I will be happy to see the results.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I datalogged before, with Steeda H/E and the 180 stat. If you search "datalooging results" in the forum you will see it. I dont doubt your findings but i cant understand how on 100* weather your ITA1 was low 98* high 106* and avg of 102* witch is only 2* above ambient. I was averaging higher temps than that on cool 74* night! Did you test during the day?? Did you beat on the car at all??

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#19 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:19 PM

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I datalogged before, with Steeda H/E and the 180 stat. If you search "datalooging results" in the forum you will see it. I dont doubt your findings but i cant understand how on 100* weather your ITA1 was low 98* high 106* and avg of 102* witch is only 2* above ambient. I was averaging higher temps than that on cool 74* night! Did you test during the day?? Did you beat on the car at all??

Kostas

I can't explain the low IAT's with the 170, but I did the logs at 2PM and it was 100* both times. I only did one short WOT run, mainly because there was so much traffic and I had no room. I didn't do much idling, so maybe that's why the low IAT's. I do know that under hood temps were much cooler with the 170. I didn't get that blast of heat when I opened the hood, especially with the stock thermostat. Either way, I like the results and am very satisfied with the product.
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#20 OFFLINE   Bad Horse

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:41 AM

I can't explain the low IAT's with the 170, but I did the logs at 2PM and it was 100* both times. I only did one short WOT run, mainly because there was so much traffic and I had no room. I didn't do much idling, so maybe that's why the low IAT's. I do know that under hood temps were much cooler with the 170. I didn't get that blast of heat when I opened the hood, especially with the stock thermostat. Either way, I like the results and am very satisfied with the product.





Mullens. IAT1 is inlet temp. IAT2 is air temp after intercooler. Which did you datalog?
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#21 OFFLINE   03 DSG Snake

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:07 PM

Mullens. IAT1 is inlet temp. IAT2 is air temp after intercooler. Which did you datalog?


Sounds like IAT1 at those temps. Too low for Downstream.

#22 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:07 PM

Sounds like IAT1 at those temps. Too low for Downstream.

IAT1.
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#23 OFFLINE   jm@ReischePerf

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 11:05 AM

How does a Thermostat Reduce IAT1?

It can have an effect on air charge temp simply because there is less heat in the engine components and, of course, less heat will be transferred to the air charge. However this inlet IAT1 is primarily affected by the speed of the vehicle and probably not useful data in this case. Also when the radiator fan is on you will always notice climbing IATs from heat being sucked back into the intake.

Why wouldn't you test the same fan speed settings in the data logs with different products?

Actually if you look carefully at Joeís data, the fan settings did not affect his test negatively. With the NAPA thermostat he ran a 188* low setting but lowest ECT was 184* so the fan never hit itís off speed of 182*, it ran constantly during that log.

With my thermostat the ECT hit a low of 176* and shut the fan off, meaning ECT would probably have even dropped a bit more under different conditions or if the fan kept running. I understand the scientific spirit of your concerns which is why I always perform a hot idle test with the A/C running (fan on) to test thermostats under the most controlled circumstances possible.

Edited by jm@ReischePerf, 13 September 2009 - 11:08 AM.

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#24 OFFLINE   Supercharger

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 12:52 PM

With my thermostat the ECT hit a low of 176* and shut the fan off, meaning ECT would probably have even dropped a bit more under different conditions or if the fan kept running. I understand the scientific spirit of your concerns which is why I always perform a hot idle test with the A/C running (fan on) to test thermostats under the most controlled circumstances possible.


Do you need to (or should you) change your fan settings if you install the thermostat?

Edited by Supercharger, 13 September 2009 - 12:54 PM.

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#25 OFFLINE   jm@ReischePerf

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 01:06 PM

Do you need to (or should you) change your fan settings if you install the thermostat?

Definitely... A lower temp thermostat can do little to lower ECT unless there is air moving through the radiator to dissipate the heat. Otherwise you will only see lower temps when the vehicle is moving at moderate to high speeds.

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#26 OFFLINE   Revan Racing

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 01:15 PM

It can have an effect on air charge temp simply because there is less heat in the engine components and, of course, less heat will be transferred to the air charge. However this inlet IAT1 is primarily affected by the speed of the vehicle and probably not useful data in this case. Also when the radiator fan is on you will always notice climbing IATs from heat being sucked back into the intake.Actually if you look carefully at Joeís data, the fan settings did not affect his test negatively. With the NAPA thermostat he ran a 188* low setting but lowest ECT was 184* so the fan never hit itís off speed of 182*, it ran constantly during that log.

With my thermostat the ECT hit a low of 176* and shut the fan off, meaning ECT would probably have even dropped a bit more under different conditions or if the fan kept running. I understand the scientific spirit of your concerns which is why I always perform a hot idle test with the A/C running (fan on) to test thermostats under the most controlled circumstances possible.


I'm not doubting you and or your product. I just want that to be clear. If there is a product that helps our vehicles to perform and operate more efficiently I am all for it.

The IAT differential is in my opinion too dramatic of a change and throws off the information. I've data logged a few cooling products in my time. :banghead:

Thermostats have long been a debate for the GT500. For proper testing and understanding the benefit between one product or another you need consistent readings and all things being equal except the two or three products. In this case, stock, 180 or 170 TSTAT.

If your TSTAT opens sooner and opens wider and has a better engineered flow design, correct? Then you should be able to test the products on one single car with low speed fan settings off and high speed fan settings coming on at 210 or higher for example.

Obviously yours will open at 170 degrees, NAPA at 180 degrees and the stock at 192 (I believe it's 192 correct me if I am wrong). The time differential between your tstat with no fans reaching 210 degrees or higher scenario, and then duplicate the same testing data log with the NAPA 180 and the stock TSTAT as well just for demonstrative purposes.

I realize it takes a couple of TSTAT's to create one of yours. My point is very simple. Test all 3 with no fan until a much higher temp and determine how effective one is versus the other based on time scale to reach a predetermined temperature. All things being equal that being speed of the tests, stock radiator, stock heat exchanger, same vehicle. Then test on a GT500 with stock radiator and an AFCO Heat Exchanger, same vehicle for all 3 products. Then test on a GT500 with a stock radiator and a Shelby Heat Exchanger, same vehicle, all three products. Then test on a GT500 with a Shebly Radiator and a Shelby Heat Exchanger, same vehicle all three products.

Compile data like this that is comprehensive and shows the difference and results, the product sells itself, IMO.

Ex.

If your TSTAT flows more efficiently and opens wider then in theory it should climb to 210 degrees, for example, slower than a 180 NAPA TSTAT, correct? Simply based on the fact that it's got a better flow design and opens earlier the NAPA should rise to 210 or 230 much quicker. A test of this nature based on time differentials proves the efficiency of a product based on it's claims. I believe what you have claimed I just think that a different type of testing may be in order.

Playing with fan speeds between different TSTAT's simply introduces anomalies to the testing scenario. Test them at one speed, with no fans and measure the time difference to build to a predetermined median temperature. Test on the same car and then test different cars with different modifications.

You are in essence using the radiator earlier and you should effectively cool the liquid sooner thereby keeping the fluid below said median test temperature.

If the NAPA flows less efficiently then in theory it should climb to the median test temperature faster, yes?

This is by no means an attempt to bash or decry your product. I think you've done a lot of work and due diligence. I think you are also the right person to do the data logging and testing. Personally, I would test it differently, as stated above.
2007 Shelby GT500 Alloy Metallic # 357 NASA Time Trial Unlimited Competition Vehicle

WWW.REVANRACING.COM

2007 Shelby GT500 Alloy Metallic Coupe
Purchased October 30, 2006
Shelby Registry Documented as GT500 cooling system development car


Modifications:
Revan Racing/Shelby Original Prototype Radiator, Revan Racing/Shelby Original Prototype Heat Exchanger, Revan Racing/Shelby Reservoir Kit
Griggs Racing Products GR40 ST Suspension with Watts Link and Full Front SLA, Dynotech 1-Piece Aluminum Drive Shaft, dba Slotted Rotors, Hawk DTC 70 Race Pads, Brembo LCF 600 Plus Brake Fluid, Forgeline ZX3R's Matte Black with Titanium Fasteners and Hoosier R6 315's on all 4 corners
Kenne Bell 3.6LC Polished Competition Supercharger with 3.75 Upper, Kenne Bell Competition Boost-A-Pump, 2008 Lower Pulley, HPX MAF Sensor, Jon Lund Tuned and Calibrated (at least 100 times), Borla XR-1 Racing Long Tube Headers, Catless X-Pipe, Borla XR-1 Mufflers, Ford Racing Sparco Race Seat, Shelby Shifter, Silver Horse Racing Side Window Louvers, Agent 47 Retro Mirrors, Proglass Retro Ram Air Hood with Run Cool Hood Louvers, Agent 47 Brake Ducts, Schroth Racing harnesses, AEM Wide Band
Stock Motor Died on track at Daytona International Speedway December 2009 at 190+ MPH
New Motor Born February 2010
Custom Diamond/L&M Race Pistons 9.5:1 Compression, Oliver Rods with ARP 2000 Rod Bolts, Manley Titanium Valve Spring Retainers, Ferrea Super Alloy Exhaust and Intake Valves, AP Rings, Speed Pro Main and Rod Bearings, Ford GT Cams, Canton Road Race Oil Pan, Complete ARP 2000 Bolts throughout

Sponsored by: L&M Engines, www.lmengines.com C&R Racing, www.crracing.com Kenne Bell Superchargers, www.kennebell.net Lund Racing, www.lundracing.com SPEC Clutches, www.specclutch.com Griggs Racing www.grigg ing.com & Borla Racing Exhaust Systems www.borla.com

#27 OFFLINE   jm@ReischePerf

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 02:15 PM

If your TSTAT opens sooner and opens wider and has a better engineered flow design, correct?

It does not open wider but it has the same size diaphragm as the OEM unit and the bypass properly fits the housing.

Again I understand where youíre coming from but Iím not really interested in spending hours of research to test my thermostat against one that leaves the bypass open. It WILL flow more to the radiator than the TH109 simply because it fits properly and the bypass will close. Data has shown the new unit opens at 170-172 as advertised and this will lower ECT on any given setup combination. Charge temp tests are also not something Iím concerned with. I have already spent a great deal of time and money on this project and I am more than satisfied with the resultsÖ there is not as much money in the thermostat business as you may think, LOL!

I welcome you or anyone to post any test results they like. But no matter what test is done there will always be critics because data is subject to interpretation. Iím 100% sure that anyone who installs this unit will see better results than any t-stat that was previously available in the aftermarket.

THE BEST THERMOSTAT AVAILABLE FOR YOUR GT500!
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#28 OFFLINE   Revan Racing

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 03:05 PM

there is not as much money in the thermostat business as you may think, LOL!


Margins are not all that great in the automotive aftermarket parts as a whole. I hear ya! Good luck with your product. Thus far from what I have read and heard, it should be a winner!
2007 Shelby GT500 Alloy Metallic # 357 NASA Time Trial Unlimited Competition Vehicle

WWW.REVANRACING.COM

2007 Shelby GT500 Alloy Metallic Coupe
Purchased October 30, 2006
Shelby Registry Documented as GT500 cooling system development car


Modifications:
Revan Racing/Shelby Original Prototype Radiator, Revan Racing/Shelby Original Prototype Heat Exchanger, Revan Racing/Shelby Reservoir Kit
Griggs Racing Products GR40 ST Suspension with Watts Link and Full Front SLA, Dynotech 1-Piece Aluminum Drive Shaft, dba Slotted Rotors, Hawk DTC 70 Race Pads, Brembo LCF 600 Plus Brake Fluid, Forgeline ZX3R's Matte Black with Titanium Fasteners and Hoosier R6 315's on all 4 corners
Kenne Bell 3.6LC Polished Competition Supercharger with 3.75 Upper, Kenne Bell Competition Boost-A-Pump, 2008 Lower Pulley, HPX MAF Sensor, Jon Lund Tuned and Calibrated (at least 100 times), Borla XR-1 Racing Long Tube Headers, Catless X-Pipe, Borla XR-1 Mufflers, Ford Racing Sparco Race Seat, Shelby Shifter, Silver Horse Racing Side Window Louvers, Agent 47 Retro Mirrors, Proglass Retro Ram Air Hood with Run Cool Hood Louvers, Agent 47 Brake Ducts, Schroth Racing harnesses, AEM Wide Band
Stock Motor Died on track at Daytona International Speedway December 2009 at 190+ MPH
New Motor Born February 2010
Custom Diamond/L&M Race Pistons 9.5:1 Compression, Oliver Rods with ARP 2000 Rod Bolts, Manley Titanium Valve Spring Retainers, Ferrea Super Alloy Exhaust and Intake Valves, AP Rings, Speed Pro Main and Rod Bearings, Ford GT Cams, Canton Road Race Oil Pan, Complete ARP 2000 Bolts throughout

Sponsored by: L&M Engines, www.lmengines.com C&R Racing, www.crracing.com Kenne Bell Superchargers, www.kennebell.net Lund Racing, www.lundracing.com SPEC Clutches, www.specclutch.com Griggs Racing www.grigg ing.com & Borla Racing Exhaust Systems www.borla.com

#29 OFFLINE   cobra 07

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:01 PM

IMO - for what it's worth - assuming the rad has the cap to keep the coolant cool at the desired temp -

170 stat opens appx 170 d --set fan at 182 d - coolant stays @ appx 182 d
180 stat opens appx 180 d --set fan at 192 d - coolant stays @ appx 192 d
192 stat opens appx 192 d --set fan at 202 d --coolant stays @ appx 202 d

now thats rocket science if you want to run or engine temp at 182 d or 202 d :confused:
chuck

#30 OFFLINE   Supercharger

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 10:42 AM

Definitely... A lower temp thermostat can do little to lower ECT unless there is air moving through the radiator to dissipate the heat. Otherwise you will only see lower temps when the vehicle is moving at moderate to high speeds.


I am not asking for a tutorial on tunes, but can you change the fan settings on an FRPP tune (I have the tune for the FRPP CAI) with an SCT or other handheld tuner? I have the old pro cal tuner. I doubt FRPP is going to do that for me, and in any event it costs $150 to get them to make any changes. Thanks.
2009 GT500 Alloy with stripe delete and charcoal/red interior
3:73 gears, Techco watts link, FRPP lowering springs, FRPP CAI, L&M throttle body, Roush Extreme Off Road Exhaust, FRPP short throw shifter, JLT brake cooling kit, Parnelli Jones wheels, Moroso black intercooler tank




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