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GT500 Clutch Problem


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#1 OFFLINE   computermike

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:05 AM

I have seen several TSBs regarding my GT500's clutch. Is a TSB a procedure the dealer should follow completely. My GT500 is at the dealer and they say they want to install a new clutch kit. Should I insist they preform the TSB procedure as well. How can I tell which TSB applies to my 2007 GT500, I think there are four. I have the numbers for three 08-16-4, 09-09-02, 10-3-8.

Thanks

Mike

#2 OFFLINE   Grabber

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 06:39 PM

I have seen several TSBs regarding my GT500's clutch. Is a TSB a procedure the dealer should follow completely. My GT500 is at the dealer and they say they want to install a new clutch kit. Should I insist they preform the TSB procedure as well. How can I tell which TSB applies to my 2007 GT500, I think there are four. I have the numbers for three 08-16-4, 09-09-02, 10-3-8.

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

All the old TSB's have been replaced with the last one you listed. Your dealer will do the work per the TSB - Tech. Service Bullitin.
GRABBER Posted ImagePosted Image
Posted Image 2007 GRABBER ORANGE GT500 Coupe ordered 10/13/06. Sub to plant 12/14/06. Scheduled 1/16/07. Bucked 1/17/07. Released From Plant 1/19/07. Plant Quality Hold 1/19/07. Off Plant Quality Hold 2/21/07. Shipped 2/22/07. Delivered 3/8/07. New 2008 2nd Gen. Tranny & Nickle Hub Clutch & Flywheel & Lube & CSC bearing 1/16/2008. New 2009 2nd Gen. Flywheel & another new Nickel Hub Clutch & Pilot Bearing 8/8/08. New 2010 Clutch and flywheel and slave cylinder & pilot bearing and clutch line 8/2/12
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#3 OFFLINE   Blackhawkpilot

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:41 AM

Mike,

All the old TSB's have been replaced with the last one you listed. Your dealer will do the work per the TSB - Tech. Service Bullitin.


Does anyboy know if there is a statute of limitations on the TSB? I'm not able to get it done now, but I don't want to find out there was an expiration date if I need it later......
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#4 OFFLINE   Son of GT

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 10:26 AM

Does anyboy know if there is a statute of limitations on the TSB? I'm not able to get it done now, but I don't want to find out there was an expiration date if I need it later......



A TSB never runs out. It's a tool to help Ford technicians indentify and resolve a reoccuring problem that has been identified by FoMoCo engineers. However, while a TSB never runs out, your factory warranty does and that's when you will have to fight an uphill battle to get the car repaired on Ford's dime. A TSB does not change the terms of your warranty. If your clutch goes out 1 mile after the warranty's mileage cap, or one day after it's monthly cap, then Ford does not have any obligation to fix your car just because there is a TSB out for the problem that you are having.

If you're concerned that you will be a victim of the poorly designed flywheel, then you should consider having the car repaired while it's still under warranty.

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#5 OFFLINE   Blackhawkpilot

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 01:12 PM

A TSB never runs out. It's a tool to help Ford technicians indentify and resolve a reoccuring problem that has been identified by FoMoCo engineers. However, while a TSB never runs out, your factory warranty does and that's when you will have to fight an uphill battle to get the car repaired on Ford's dime. A TSB does not change the terms of your warranty. If your clutch goes out 1 mile after the warranty's mileage cap, or one day after it's monthly cap, then Ford does not have any obligation to fix your car just because there is a TSB out for the problem that you are having.

If you're concerned that you will be a victim of the poorly designed flywheel, then you should consider having the car repaired while it's still under warranty.


Very thorough answer, thanks dude!
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#6 OFFLINE   stargazer423

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 06:08 AM

A TSB never runs out. It's a tool to help Ford technicians indentify and resolve a reoccuring problem that has been identified by FoMoCo engineers. However, while a TSB never runs out, your factory warranty does and that's when you will have to fight an uphill battle to get the car repaired on Ford's dime. A TSB does not change the terms of your warranty. If your clutch goes out 1 mile after the warranty's mileage cap, or one day after it's monthly cap, then Ford does not have any obligation to fix your car just because there is a TSB out for the problem that you are having.

If you're concerned that you will be a victim of the poorly designed flywheel, then you should consider having the car repaired while it's still under warranty.


Does the TSB mean you can insist upon having the procedure completed even if you don't have the problem mentioned in the bulletin? I am not having the clutch problem now, but I am close to the warranty running out and I wanted to be proactive. Thanks.
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#7 OFFLINE   SSGT500

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 06:28 AM

The extent of the clutch TSB seems to vary from dealer to dealer and month to month. Last fall my local dealer told me he could replace the clutch/flywheel assembly and repair the trans under warranty. This spring he told me I would have to pay for the clutch but the trans would still be under warranty. Ford needs to improve here.

#8 OFFLINE   agmo

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 07:31 AM

Just a question on the clutch. How does the clutch act so you know if a problem is developing. Mine sometimes has a little chatter when you let the clutch out in first gear when starting from a dead stop. Also when shifting from 1st to 2nd quickly it seems to hang and not shift smoothly or it could be just me. Ours is a 2008 gt500 and was just wondering is this normal.

#9 OFFLINE   Son of GT

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:40 AM

Does the TSB mean you can insist upon having the procedure completed even if you don't have the problem mentioned in the bulletin? I am not having the clutch problem now, but I am close to the warranty running out and I wanted to be proactive. Thanks.


The one word answer? No. However, if you advise the dealer that you are experiencing some or all of the symptoms that the TSB lists, then your dealer may/should repair your clutch assembly under the TSB. You just have to make sure that you advise them that you are having issues with your clutch. TS member "Grabber" has a forum that clearly outlines the procedure and the best way to talk to your dealer in order to get your clutch repaired under the TSB. I recommend that you pursue the repair before the warranty period expires, because all bets will be off after the experation date/mileage passes.

Just a question on the clutch. How does the clutch act so you know if a problem is developing. Mine sometimes has a little chatter when you let the clutch out in first gear when starting from a dead stop. Also when shifting from 1st to 2nd quickly it seems to hang and not shift smoothly or it could be just me. Ours is a 2008 gt500 and was just wondering is this normal.


Clutch chatter on take off is normal for the generation 1 clutch, so that's not an issue or a symptom of clutch failure. The 1st to 2nd shift hangup is one of the symptoms, but just that issue alone may not be enough for the dealer to make repairs under the TSB. Again, TS member "Grabber" has generated several detailed forums about the TSB and the symptoms indicating failure, but a couple of them are:

Difficulty getting the transmission in gear, any gear. This is called (gear) "bumping" and will be most noticable shifting from 1st to 2nd, and from 2nd to 3rd, but not exclusive to those gear changes. If you have to push the shift knob hard and/or multiple times in order to get the transmission into 1st or reverse, then you are having clutch issues.

Continued "hissing" noise when the clutch pedal is completely depressed to the floor. The hissing noise is normal whenever the clutch is being engaged, but not normal during disengagement (pedal down). The best place to listen for this issue is in a enclosed space like your garage. Roll the windows down, start the engine, and with the car in netural, depress the clutch pedal. If the hissing noise occurs when the pedal is down to the floor, then you have a definate TSB symptom with your clutch.

I recommend that you (both of you) search out Grabber's forums on this matter, read the other symptoms that are listed, print out the latest TSB (there are several revisions) that he has linked in those forums, and take action accordingly before your warranty runs out. Otherwise, you are looking at a rather expensive repair bill if you have to pay for a new clutch out of pocket. Fair warning though, if you do not behave as an informed owner when you take your car into the dealer, there is a very good chance that they will do everything to deny the claim and tell you that the clutch is not covered under warranty, and that is just not true. Although Ford has the final say in the matter, it does not mean that you should not fight the good fight to protect your interests as well as the basic rights that all owner's have under the terms of the warranty.

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PLEASE BUY AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS WHENEVER POSSIBLE; NOW MORE THAN EVER BEFORE!

IN MEMORY OF JOE GOSINSKI, 10-23-66 / 12-24-10. RIP JOE, YOU WILL ALWAYS BE MISSED.

"As long as there's America, there will always be a Mustang." - Jay Leno.

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#10 OFFLINE   barstoolman

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 07:09 AM

I am currently having my third clutch replaced by Ford at my dealer with 27,500 miles on the car. The first replacement, done after 2,500 miles back in October of '08 included the complete kit plus all the synchros. The second replacement, done in August of '09 with 14,500 miles, had the updated TSB recommendations done but new synchros were not necessary. Finally, last week my car was taken into the dealer again. Flywheel warped and burnt to a crisp. Happily, Ford and the dealer are putting in the 2010-2011 current production kit. Hopefully, this will be the ticket!!!!!

Although clutch chatter is not a symptom or acceptable issue for Ford to do the recommended work per the TSB, some techs are saying that the constant chatter that occurs does have an effect on the clutch/flywheel and might be one of the causes.

Early on, Ford was pretty much doing the TSB work as long as your GT500's VIN was in a certain range......symptoms or not. I understand they have gotten much tougher and more restrictive in doing the work. I really do feel that the dealer and the service department are the key. If the service and dealer are behind their customer, Ford does stand by their product. It seems when the dealer is wishy-washy about the issue, Ford does not come through. they rely on the input (for the most part) from their dealer and the service techs. That is why buying and servicng your car from a dealer with integrity and a customer first approach is a must.

By the time this current TSB is performed on my car, Ford and the dealer will have dumped something in the area of $8,000 into my car. Even though I am not happy about the quality or the drivability of this original clutch, my hats off to Ford and my dealer for standing behind their product without ever giving me a hassle.
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#11 OFFLINE   SSGT500

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:33 AM

I am currently having my third clutch replaced by Ford at my dealer with 27,500 miles on the car. The first replacement, done after 2,500 miles back in October of '08 included the complete kit plus all the synchros. The second replacement, done in August of '09 with 14,500 miles, had the updated TSB recommendations done but new synchros were not necessary. Finally, last week my car was taken into the dealer again. Flywheel warped and burnt to a crisp. Happily, Ford and the dealer are putting in the 2010-2011 current production kit. Hopefully, this will be the ticket!!!!!

Although clutch chatter is not a symptom or acceptable issue for Ford to do the recommended work per the TSB, some techs are saying that the constant chatter that occurs does have an effect on the clutch/flywheel and might be one of the causes.

Early on, Ford was pretty much doing the TSB work as long as your GT500's VIN was in a certain range......symptoms or not. I understand they have gotten much tougher and more restrictive in doing the work. I really do feel that the dealer and the service department are the key. If the service and dealer are behind their customer, Ford does stand by their product. It seems when the dealer is wishy-washy about the issue, Ford does not come through. they rely on the input (for the most part) from their dealer and the service techs. That is why buying and servicng your car from a dealer with integrity and a customer first approach is a must.

By the time this current TSB is performed on my car, Ford and the dealer will have dumped something in the area of $8,000 into my car. Even though I am not happy about the quality or the drivability of this original clutch, my hats off to Ford and my dealer for standing behind their product without ever giving me a hassle.



This example demonstrates my point. One owner can get 3 clutches but another can't get 1? The replacement policy shouldn't vary from dealer to dealer. The emblem on my car says "FORD". The sign in front of the dealership says "Ford". I'd be willing to save Ford some money on my clutch. Send me half of that $8,000, and I'll do my own repairs. I won't be putting a crappy original equipment part in. I'm really surprised that some lawyer hasn't started a class action lawsuit against Ford on the clutch issue.

#12 OFFLINE   ceswert

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 05:04 PM

I just had my clutch replaced. I took it to my ford dealership telling them about the clutch problem. At first, I thought it was a traction issue. Almost everytime I accelerated from 50 mph + it felt like I lost traction. There was a shuttering when this happened. I decided to take it in. During their test drive, the clutch completely failed. They flat bedded it back to the shop and told quoted me $4000 plus maybe a bit more. I asked them about warranty work. They said they doubted it but took pictures anyway. They also told me these clutch assemblies typically last 2-3 years. Yikes! I was talking with some techs at Mustang Ranch in Santa Clara,CA. They told me about the type of Ford clutch it was and its estimated life with fairly conservative street driving. They have designed a clutch system that they said would be easier to use and would last for years. They quoted me $3m for parts and installation. I decided to go with their clutch system and save a grand plus get more useage. I picked the snake up last week and Wow, what a difference! It is very driver friendly. I can even take off in first and second and have much reduced traction problems. It's a geat clutch at a competitive price. I guess the main difference is the Ford clutch is a racing type design and the Mustang Ranch design might be more for street use. Anyway I am delighted with it. These guys are very good. They just finished restoring a 69 Mach 1 cj for me. It took quite a while but the results are outstanding! If anyone is in the CA. bay area, I highly recommend these guys. I did save my original clutch system for originality.

#13 OFFLINE   barstoolman

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:05 AM

This example demonstrates my point. One owner can get 3 clutches but another can't get 1? The replacement policy shouldn't vary from dealer to dealer. The emblem on my car says "FORD". The sign in front of the dealership says "Ford". I'd be willing to save Ford some money on my clutch. Send me half of that $8,000, and I'll do my own repairs. I won't be putting a crappy original equipment part in. I'm really surprised that some lawyer hasn't started a class action lawsuit against Ford on the clutch issue.


In theory, everything you say should pan out that way.....unfortunately, as we all know, it doesn't. I believe the critical issue here is the dealer you bought the car from and the service department you do business with. The guys that are getting hassles and "No" from Ford are dealing with dealers that are not standing behind their customers and demanding action. It just takes some effort and knowing how to deal with Ford to get action.
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#14 OFFLINE   BIKEBOY

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:59 AM

Interestingly, on my '07 car I have experienced since day one with 7 miles, a 'notchy' feel shifting into first from a dead stop, but ONLY before the car and tranny are warm? Then as the mileage progressed to around 500 or so, the same feeling (when cold) from first to second.

Turn the clock and odometer forward to yr. 2010 and approx. 3400 miles, and still the exact same symptoms, however I notice that depressing the clutch pedal all the way down does away with any of this feel. I only began paying attention to trying this method of clutch pedal depression, because of ALL of these postings.

On a side note...in the garage with the car running, as one poster described, I have NO clutch hiss with the pedal depressed...but definitely hisses with your foot off the pedal!

I am forced to wonder with everything you guys are talking about, and all of the Ford TSB's , do I become proactive and do a flywheel and SPEC clutch replacement NOW???

Anyone done this with theirs yet? I plan on fully staying away from any factory parts to be sure. Incidentally, my fact. warr. ran out April, 2010.

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#15 OFFLINE   Grabber

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:18 AM

Interestingly, on my '07 car I have experienced since day one with 7 miles, a 'notchy' feel shifting into first from a dead stop, but ONLY before the car and tranny are warm? Then as the mileage progressed to around 500 or so, the same feeling (when cold) from first to second.

Turn the clock and odometer forward to yr. 2010 and approx. 3400 miles, and still the exact same symptoms, however I notice that depressing the clutch pedal all the way down does away with any of this feel. I only began paying attention to trying this method of clutch pedal depression, because of ALL of these postings.

On a side note...in the garage with the car running, as one poster described, I have NO clutch hiss with the pedal depressed...but definitely hisses with your foot off the pedal!

I am forced to wonder with everything you guys are talking about, and all of the Ford TSB's , do I become proactive and do a flywheel and SPEC clutch replacement NOW???

Anyone done this with theirs yet? I plan on fully staying away from any factory parts to be sure. Incidentally, my fact. warr. ran out April, 2010.


The clutch should not hiss when it's in the out position. That's not good at all.

When you put it in gear and hold the clutch pedal in...does it creep a little?
GRABBER Posted ImagePosted Image
Posted Image 2007 GRABBER ORANGE GT500 Coupe ordered 10/13/06. Sub to plant 12/14/06. Scheduled 1/16/07. Bucked 1/17/07. Released From Plant 1/19/07. Plant Quality Hold 1/19/07. Off Plant Quality Hold 2/21/07. Shipped 2/22/07. Delivered 3/8/07. New 2008 2nd Gen. Tranny & Nickle Hub Clutch & Flywheel & Lube & CSC bearing 1/16/2008. New 2009 2nd Gen. Flywheel & another new Nickel Hub Clutch & Pilot Bearing 8/8/08. New 2010 Clutch and flywheel and slave cylinder & pilot bearing and clutch line 8/2/12
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#16 OFFLINE   BIKEBOY

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:36 AM

The clutch should not hiss when it's in the out position. That's not good at all.

When you put it in gear and hold the clutch pedal in...does it creep a little?

OK...now you have me second guessing myself! Lol... I will have to go out and see if I have that 'desrever' (backwards). As for the creep...no none at all.

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#17 OFFLINE   BIKEBOY

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 09:06 AM

OK...pheeew!
I was wrong. The hiss is definitely ONLY with pedal depressed. And as I mentioned before, the car does not creep.

Thx, Grabber.

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#18 OFFLINE   Grabber

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 10:40 AM

OK...pheeew!
I was wrong. The hiss is definitely ONLY with pedal depressed. And as I mentioned before, the car does not creep.

Thx, Grabber.



That's not good either.

Study this thread:

http://www.teamshelb...__fromsearch__1
GRABBER Posted ImagePosted Image
Posted Image 2007 GRABBER ORANGE GT500 Coupe ordered 10/13/06. Sub to plant 12/14/06. Scheduled 1/16/07. Bucked 1/17/07. Released From Plant 1/19/07. Plant Quality Hold 1/19/07. Off Plant Quality Hold 2/21/07. Shipped 2/22/07. Delivered 3/8/07. New 2008 2nd Gen. Tranny & Nickle Hub Clutch & Flywheel & Lube & CSC bearing 1/16/2008. New 2009 2nd Gen. Flywheel & another new Nickel Hub Clutch & Pilot Bearing 8/8/08. New 2010 Clutch and flywheel and slave cylinder & pilot bearing and clutch line 8/2/12
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#19 OFFLINE   BIKEBOY

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:34 PM

That's not good either.

Study this thread:

http://www.teamshelb...__fromsearch__1

Grabber, I was out for a nice ride today in Toronto area...weather was beautiful today!
You seem to be edumicated on this whole topic? I have ONE very simple question.
What the H___L do I do? If I don't want to do any synchro damage in the long run, and
be able to drive the car without thinking about EVERY time I push in the clutch, that I may
be bumping those synchros... Do I just do a flywheel (whoever has the best replacement)
and maybe the SPEC clutch, now proactively??? What are the choices we all have? My car
is shifting great now with 3400 miles on it. If I push the clutch down to the carpet between
shifts, there is NO bump! As well, EVERYTIME...I mean EVERYTIME, just like the old days
in the 60's 4 speed Stangs, I push in the clutch at initial take-off, and gently shift an 1/8th
inch or so down in the gate to 2nd before stabbing it into first. This seems to virtually
eliminate ANY first gear synchro bump upon take-off.

I know there will be guys on this very site that tell me to man-up, and drive it till I have an
issue...however, I am not that easily swayed into neglecting the only real car I ever waited for in my lifetime.
I come from autoparts / service writing / wrenching @ home on my own cars, background. I
shudder to think that if I could do a proactive clutch job now and save tearing that Tremec
apart for what would feel like unnecessary pieces later!!! Aaarrgh!?

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