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Motor Trend: Boss 302 v. GT500 v. GT350


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#1 OFFLINE   calgaryshelby

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 10:27 AM

I see that Motor Trend has completed its full review of the new 302 (http://www.motortren...test/index.html) and their numbers from all their road tests stack up as follows:

2012 Boss 302

0-60 - 4.0 sec (they mention 3.97)
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.3 sec @ 115.8 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 108 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 0.98 g (avg)

2011 Shelby GT500

0-60 - 4.1 sec
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.35 sec @ 115.75 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 103.83 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.01 g

2012 Shelby GT350 (550 hp version)

0-60 - 3.7 sec
0-100 - n/a
1/4 mile - 12.0 sec @ 121.4 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 107 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.05 g

While I take the numbers from these mags with a grain of salt, I would be much happier paying the GT500 price, if numbers for the GT500 matched the numbers of the GT350 (with the exception of the braking results). It is interesting to note that Motor Trend does not think the ZL1 will be able to hang with the Boss 302 on the track and that the 302 is 4 sec faster around the track then when they tested the '10 GT500.




Thoughts? Reactions to the Motor Trend review of the Boss?

Edited by calgaryshelby, 09 March 2011 - 10:32 AM.


#2 OFFLINE   JWG223

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 10:30 AM

Reactions? If you're going to stay stock, screw the GT500. I am impressed as hell! This will give 'vette owners, and a lot of P car owners, a lot of headaches!

EPIC WIN! for Ford!

Reading on...

...Launch control.
That works.

Wow.

Impressed. I have to say, Ford shocked me.

Edited by JWG223, 07 March 2011 - 10:32 AM.


#3 OFFLINE   steemin

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 11:20 AM

Wow...... Is my reaction...

I am currently in the midst of a search for a new 2011 GT 500 and this article is giving me second thoughts..

Please tell me I am on the right track chasing the GT500...

Scott

Edited by steemin, 07 March 2011 - 11:20 AM.

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#4 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 11:22 AM

Something just doesnt feel right about the numbers. Particularly the braking distance; the ~500lb heavier GT500 out brakes both the Boss and GT350? Is that a type-o? Also, the GT500 was able to pull a better lateral-g then the Boss which has a better suspension set-up and tires?
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#5 OFFLINE   calgaryshelby

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 12:16 PM

I see that Motor Trend has completed its full review of the new 302 (http://www.motortren...test/index.html) and their numbers from all their road tests stack up as follows:

2012 Boss 302

0-60 - 4.0 sec (they mention 3.97)
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.3 sec @ 115.8 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 108 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 0.98 g (avg)

2011 Shelby GT500

0-60 - 4.1 sec
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.35 sec @ 115.75 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 103.83 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.01 g

2012 Shelby GT350

0-60 - 3.7 sec
0-100 - n/a
1/4 mile - 12.0 sec @ 121.4 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 107 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.05 g

While I take the numbers from these mags with a grain of salt, I would be much happier paying the GT500 price, if numbers for the GT500 matched the numbers of the GT350 (with the exception of the braking results). It is interesting to note that Motor Trend does not think the ZL1 will be able to hang with the Boss 302 on the track and that the 302 is 4 sec faster around the track then when they tested the '10 GT500.

Thoughts? Reactions to the Motor Trend review of the Boss?


Numbers come from the following:

http://www.motortren..._test_data.html
http://www.motortren...test/specs.html
http://www.motortren...ison/specs.html
http://www.motortren...erformance.html

#6 OFFLINE   Dig-It

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 12:58 PM

Thoughts? Reactions to the Motor Trend review of the Boss?

:yahoo: :rockon: :happy feet: :banvictory: :bandance: :elefant: :party: :party2: :banana piano: :woohoo: :hyper: :woot: :dance: :hyper2:

... and I'm out of emoticons.

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on the steering wheel of that car!
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#7 OFFLINE   ChrisSD

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:18 PM

Something just doesnt feel right about the numbers. Particularly the braking distance; the ~500lb heavier GT500 out brakes both the Boss and GT350? Is that a type-o? Also, the GT500 was able to pull a better lateral-g then the Boss which has a better suspension set-up and tires?


The GT500 is not 500 lbs heavier than the Boss, more like 225.

EDIT: Actually less than that:

CURB WEIGHT 3621 lb

It's only 150 lbs lighter.

Ford put launch control on the Boss too. Ford seems happy with the GT500 on skinny tires and zero launch control, meaning terrible stock performance numbers.

Edited by ChrisSD, 07 March 2011 - 01:27 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   dbowles22

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:26 PM

Different test conditions, different test drivers and so on. Now if I was in the market for a new GT500 I'd be pissed that the Boss is getting all these new "Technologies" and the top of the line GT500 isnt getting any of it....

But good for Ford, those numbers are great and probably made Some ZL1 Hopefulls $&!? their pants

It's a sports car in a muscle shirt

Edited by dbowles22, 07 March 2011 - 01:28 PM.

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#9 OFFLINE   ChrisSD

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:53 PM

here is the launch control:



Pay $60,000 for a GT500 and you don't get this.

#10 OFFLINE   JWG223

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:55 PM

Different test conditions, different test drivers and so on. Now if I was in the market for a new GT500 I'd be pissed that the Boss is getting all these new "Technologies" and the top of the line GT500 isnt getting any of it....

But good for Ford, those numbers are great and probably made Some ZL1 Hopefulls $&!? their pants

It's a sports car in a muscle shirt

Couldn't have said it better. Those really are "sports car" numbers. Once ford ditches the SRA, the only thing that will separate the mustang from the P-cars and 'vettes will be the name and fanbase.

That being said...115mph trap on a 2011 GT500? That sounds slower than members here were getting by several mph. Just average guys at their local strip. I had forgotten about all those 117-119's.

Still. Very awesome performance, and for 43K, I don't think it can be matched.

Edited by JWG223, 07 March 2011 - 01:57 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   07SGT4578

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:10 PM

I'm gonna call BS on the brake stopping distances too. There is no way that the Brembo's stopped sooner than the Baer's. :redcard:

Edited by 07SGT4578, 07 March 2011 - 02:10 PM.

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#12 OFFLINE   ChrisSD

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:16 PM

I'm gonna call BS on the brake stopping distances too. There is no way that the Brembo's stopped sooner than the Baer's. :redcard:


Tests weren't on same day, same surface, same weather, same driver.

#13 OFFLINE   speedyman

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:36 PM

How does the GT500 go from 4.1 in an '11 to 3.7 for a '12 (0-60). I don't put much faith in the 0-60 test but that is a huge difference.

#14 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:43 PM

Different test conditions, different test drivers and so on.


That was my assumption, but I haven't had a chance to look all the articals and numbers beyond the OP. However, I still don't buy all the numbers. I've read the Boss article. The testing was done at Laguna (i assume optimal conditions, particularly with it track's time) a and with a pro driver (well, at least the track time was) so I still don't see how the GT500 bested the Boss in braking and lateral-g. I'm not trying to take anything away from the GT500, I'm just saying the numbers are fishy. By those numbers alone in comparison to the M3 one could assume Ford already had an M3 killer (on a track) and maybe it is.
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#15 OFFLINE   Tob

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:47 PM

The three really need to be tested at the same time (same ambient temp's, etc) for a valid comparison. As mentioned, the numbers don't seem quite right.

Was the GT350 an actual "production" car or was it a pre-production car supplied by Shelby? And as to the 1/4 mile times, specifically that of the GT500, you have to look closely at the comments M/T made...

The GT500 struggled off the line, proof that power means little if it can't be fully utilized. "A tough car to launch, with tons of power at low rpm," says road test editor Scott Mortara.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1104_2011_chevrolet_corvette_2011_ford_shelby_gt500_2012_nissan_gtr_comparison/acceleration.html

So the GT500 overpowers the tires - we all know that and what it takes to remedy the situation. MM&FF had some interesting times with a stock 2010 (3.55's, etc) and some better rubber...

2010 Shelby GT500 Scorecard
Run 60-Foot 1/4-Mile/MPH
1. 1.852 11.855/117.66
2. 1.850 11.784/118.93
3. 1.825 11.805/117.36
4. 1.778 11.592/118.45
5. 1.913 11.951/120.29*
* Run with stock tires; all other
runs with 26x11.5x17-inch Mickey
Thompson E.T. Streets
http://www.musclemus...un_results.html

MM&FF tested a 2011 car in the midst of Florida's heat...

As the night went on, the mid-90-degree Florida air began to settle into the 80s, and the e.t.'s kept dropping. Smith wheeled his way to a 12.51, then a 12.25, followed by a 12.05 at a very healthy 118 mph. Back in the pits, we used ice and fans to remove heat from the 5.4L, and each time we cooled it to below normal operating temperature, Smith headed to the line for another pass.

After a smokey show to clean off the Goodyear Eagle F1s, he launched hard and was quickly away from the starting line. The MM&FF staff watched from the starting point as Smith grabbed Second and Third with a bark from the rear hides vocalizing at each gear change. The run was smooth and straight, and as Smith shifted into Fourth, we knew this would be one of the quickest passes of the night. The scoreboard lit up with 12.02 at almost 119 mph! We were excited to be so close to breaking the 12-second barrier on the stock tires, but unfortunately, the next runs did not yield better times.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_1010_2011_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_modern_muscle_car/the_straight_and_narrow.html

It would have been interesting to see the GT350 and a Boss run that same night, as well as all three with sticky rubber. Then again, with Justin's wife turning out such good numbers with her blown automatic five liter, does any of this really mean anything? Simply put, they're all good!!

#16 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:49 PM

The GT500 is not 500 lbs heavier than the Boss, more like 225.

EDIT: Actually less than that:

CURB WEIGHT 3621 lb

It's only 150 lbs.


I stand corrected, assuming you looked it up, because I didn't. Therefor I now have toe fungus breath, a side affect of Footnmouth disease.
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#17 OFFLINE   1wickedgt500

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 04:35 PM

I want launch control on my 500! I have been waiting YEARS to finally buy (afford) my car and as soon as I buy it they come out with the Boss! :banghead:
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#18 OFFLINE   dffej51

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 04:55 PM

What is the H.P. on the Boss 302...I thought it was significantly less than the GT500? If so, I am surprised at the 0-60 time.

#19 OFFLINE   Dig-It

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:07 PM

444 bhp as per Ford. Probably a bit underrated.
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#20 OFFLINE   Shelby.GT500

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:20 PM

I want launch control on my 500! I have been waiting YEARS to finally buy (afford) my car and as soon as I buy it they come out with the Boss! :banghead:



We still have a cool car :happy feet:
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#21 OFFLINE   CMG

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:22 PM

I want launch control on my 500! I have been waiting YEARS to finally buy (afford) my car and as soon as I buy it they come out with the Boss! :banghead:


As do I...You would really think it could be programmed into a 2011 gt500??
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#22 OFFLINE   carnut12

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:56 PM

Just my 2 cents, but I do not think Ford will allow a test between the 3 cars. I am very impressed with the Boss 302, I would definately buy it over the GT350, and more than likely the GT500. Bottom line is I do not track my cars, for every day driving it seems like it would be a better car and the looks grow on me every day. I do still love the SVT GT500, but it would be really hard to spend an extra $10-15k over the Boss. Boss will definately be rare as well, not something you can say about the GT500.

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#23 OFFLINE   AlexVogel

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 06:42 PM

60-0 @ 104 feet was same result in the GT-R vs Z06 vs 11 GT500 SVTPP article.....very believable...car stops great
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#24 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 06:50 PM

What is the H.P. on the Boss 302...I thought it was significantly less than the GT500? If so, I am surprised at the 0-60 time.


One dyno run showed 416 at the wheels, depending on your math thats somewhere between 475 & 490 on the motor.

http://mustangsdaily...hp-on-the-dyno/

The Boss also runs 3.73's in the rear along with the launch control.

Edited by EL SHELBY, 07 March 2011 - 06:55 PM.

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#25 OFFLINE   dave c

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:10 PM

I see that Motor Trend has completed its full review of the new 302 (http://www.motortren...test/index.html) and their numbers from all their road tests stack up as follows:

2012 Boss 302

0-60 - 4.0 sec (they mention 3.97)
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.3 sec @ 115.8 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 108 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 0.98 g (avg)

2011 Shelby GT500

0-60 - 4.1 sec
0-100 - 9.2 sec
1/4 mile - 12.35 sec @ 115.75 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 103.83 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.01 g

2012 Shelby GT350 (550 hp version)

0-60 - 3.7 sec
0-100 - n/a
1/4 mile - 12.0 sec @ 121.4 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph - 107 ft
Lateral Acceleration - 1.05 g

While I take the numbers from these mags with a grain of salt, I would be much happier paying the GT500 price, if numbers for the GT500 matched the numbers of the GT350 (with the exception of the braking results). It is interesting to note that Motor Trend does not think the ZL1 will be able to hang with the Boss 302 on the track and that the 302 is 4 sec faster around the track then when they tested the '10 GT500.

Thoughts? Reactions to the Motor Trend review of the Boss?

Test times seem to be varying. Here's a link to an inside line, numbers aren't quite as good.

inside line link
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#26 OFFLINE   ChrisSD

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:24 PM

As do I...You would really think it could be programmed into a 2011 gt500??


Probably not. Two completely different ECM's between the two cars.

Edited by ChrisSD, 07 March 2011 - 08:24 PM.


#27 OFFLINE   bpmurr

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:34 PM

Remember you can't get any luxury items in a Boss. It's strictly a base GT with go fast parts, no HID, no Sync, no leather etc. If they actually made Kona Blue with Black Stripes/Roof in the Boss I'd own one. Instead I'm leaning towards a 2012 GT because like we've all said the GT500 can't hookup worth a crap on its stock rubber. Sure you can spend even more money and buy slicks but they aren't practical for everyday driving.

Edited by bpmurr, 07 March 2011 - 08:35 PM.

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#28 OFFLINE   dbowles22

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:48 PM

Test times seem to be varying. Here's a link to an inside line, numbers aren't quite as good.

inside line link


Inside-lines numbers are never correct. Their numbers are always higher then everyone else's.

The braking was obviously screwed up because theres no way that 6 pistons get out braked by 4 pistons...

The lateral grip is puzzling too.

When you pay 15,000 extra, you should get all the technology from other models and then some. Hence heated seats, power pass seat, rear view camera, launch control, widder tires,....(Ford you listeing?!)

I'm all for increased performance as long as you don't stray from what the car is intended to be. Dodge w/ the new challenger hit the nail on the head IMO.
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#29 OFFLINE   ChrisSD

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:47 PM

As long as no fade set in, 6 piston, or 100 pistons, won't stop a GT500 any faster than the 4 piston Brembos. The brakes have more than enough power to completely lockup the wheels and activate the ABS. So - your stopping distance is basically decided by the rubber and the cars weight.

#30 OFFLINE   SVT NAJA

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:49 PM

While this article by Motor Trend is generally great news for Mustangs and Ford... it is meaningless for comparing the Boss 302, Shelby GT500 and GT350. As others have suggested, the only FAIR comparison would be to have all 3 in stock trim, subjected to the same tests, on the same track(s), at the same time of the day, by 3 pro drivers operating each pony to its limits. This "best of three" attempts at each performance spec would provide accurate AND credible data. :superhero:




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