Jump to content





Photo

Official UOA thread with oil poll


  • Please log in to reply
171 replies to this topic

Poll: What oil are you currently using in your Shelby 5.4L? (159 member(s) have cast votes)

What oil are you currently using in your Shelby 5.4L?

  1. Voted Motorcraft 5W-50 (66 votes [41.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.51%

  2. Castrol 5W-50 (27 votes [16.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.98%

  3. Pennzoil 5W-50 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Mobil 1 5W-50 (10 votes [6.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.29%

  5. Mobil 1 15W-50 (6 votes [3.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.77%

  6. Red Line 5W-50 (19 votes [11.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.95%

  7. Amsoil 10W-40 (21 votes [13.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.21%

  8. Amsoil 10W-30 (3 votes [1.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.89%

  9. Other (post what you are using) (7 votes [4.40%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.40%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 25 July 2011 - 09:25 AM

I have created a neat Excel spreadsheet to compare/contrast every Shelby 5.4L UOA I have ever collected. I need more samples to show trends. Posted Image

Too see chart, click here


Base green color samples are random UOAs waiting for a follow up.
Other "like" color groupings are samples taken from the same engine.

Some of you will notice your UOA is included, as I have snatched a few UOAs from Team Shelby forums. If you have a UOA on your 5.4L Shelby engine that isn't on the list, please post it here for all to see, and I will update this picture with your information.

The poll is to get an idea what everyone is using in their Shelby for engine lubrication. If you chose the "other" option.....please post what you are using in your engine. If anyone needs to know where to get oil testing, visit one of the website links below. Please, if you have your oil tested with Blackstone....opt for the extra $10.00 to have TBN tested. OAI provides TBN testing included with the price. OAI also tests for oxidation (Blackstone does not). Both labs will yield very close consistent results.

Blackstone - will cost $25.00 for basic test, $35.00 with TBN, plus the cost of shipping ($1.90 USPS)

OAI testing kits UPS prepaid - will cost $32.20 - Amsoil preferred customers get this test for $25.95

I'm currently testing the performance of Amsoil 10W-30 in my engine, results to come soon.

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 02 June 2013 - 07:20 AM.


#2 OFFLINE   68fastback

68fastback

    Need DOHC alloy big-block!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,094 posts
  • Joined 04-May 06
  • Region:Northeast

Posted 25 July 2011 - 10:04 AM

I have created a neat Excel spreadsheet to compare/contrast every Shelby 5.4L UOA I have ever collected. I need more samples to show trends. ;)

Posted Image

Some of you will notice your UOA is included, as I have snatched a few UOAs from Team Shelby forums. If you have a UOA on your 5.4L Shelby engine that isn't on the list, please post it here for all to see, and I will update this picture with your information.

The poll is to get an idea what everyone is using in their Shelby for engine lubrication. If you chose the "other" option.....please post what you are using in your engine. If anyone needs to know where to get oil testing, visit one of the websites. Please, if you have your oil tested with Blackstone....opt for the extra $10.00 to have TBN tested. OAI provides TBN testing included with the price. OAI also tests for oxidation (Blackstone does not). Both labs will yield very close consistent results.

Blackstone - will cost $25.00 for basic test, $35.00 with TBN, plus the cost of shipping ($1.90 USPS)

OAI testing kits UPS prepaid - will cost $32.95 - Amsoil preferred customers get this test for $25.95

I'm currently testing the performance of Amsoil 10W-30 in my engine, results to come soon.





Curious if any of the bottom three samples were from '11 alloy engines.

Is there some way to correlate the GT500 year in the test results?



Also, the Used Viscocity numbers are all in a rather narrow band (except the redline 5W50). The % change is largely meaningless, imo, since all 5W50s have to meet the same spec to be classed 5W and that's likely a funtion of the oil chemistry.

Nicely done!


"There's no magic involved in racing, just science and physics." --Austin Coil, Force Racing head crew-chief

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clark, noted author and futurist

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein

"I'm not going to take this defeatist attitude and listen to all this crap any more from all these people who have nothing except doomsday to predict." --Carroll Hall Shelby

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what can't be done." --Henry Ford

"Your worth consists in what you are and not in what you have." --Thomas Alva Edison

"One man with courage is a majority." --Thomas Jefferson



#3 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 25 July 2011 - 12:27 PM

Curious if any of the bottom three samples were from '11 alloy engines.

Is there some way to correlate the GT500 year in the test results?


No, it was an iron block. Do you recall the engine we discussed in depth on Team Shelby about his UOAs coming back with high Aluminum ppm. The dealer tore it down and rebuilt it. Yes, I will add a column to support year of car.

Also, the Used Viscocity numbers are all in a rather narrow band (except the redline 5W50). The % change is largely meaningless, imo, since all 5W50s have to meet the same spec to be classed 5W and that's likely a funtion of the oil chemistry.


I included it for other reasons, mainly to show everyone how Ford is comfortable with 5W-50 shearing to a heavy 30 grade lubricant at low miles of use. If it shears anyway, why not choose a lubricant that will be in the proper cSt range ~13, yet retain it's viscosity.

Nicely done!


Thanks ;)

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 25 July 2011 - 01:51 PM.


#4 OFFLINE   Boss Hoss 540

Boss Hoss 540

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 228 posts
  • Joined 29-May 11
  • Region:Decline
  • Interests:Competitive Shooting, Hunting, Driving both GT 500m and modified Raptor..... "It Is Better To Burn Out Than To Fade Away"

Posted 25 July 2011 - 01:39 PM

That is why I use the 10-40 AMO!! Use the ASM in my 2011 Raptor!!

#5 OFFLINE   SPEEDY168

SPEEDY168

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 240 posts
  • Joined 24-June 09

Posted 25 July 2011 - 05:10 PM

In layman's terms. What do the numbers mean ? Why are some red ? Posted Image

#6 OFFLINE   68fastback

68fastback

    Need DOHC alloy big-block!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,094 posts
  • Joined 04-May 06
  • Region:Northeast

Posted 25 July 2011 - 05:58 PM

No, it was an iron block. Do you recall the engine we discussed in depth on Team Shelby about his UOAs coming back with high Aluminum ppm. The dealer tore it down and rebuilt it. Yes, I will add a column to support year of car.


Cool ..thanks


I included it for other reasons, mainly to show everyone how Ford is comfortable with 5W-50 shearing to a heavy 30 grade lubricant at low miles of use. If it shears anyway, why not choose a lubricant that will be in the proper cSt range ~13, yet retain it's viscosity.

...but cSt is tested at a particular temp. Oils with dynamic [hot] viscocity modifiers will certainly shear more, but at higher temperatures they will have higher viscocityies than at the single hot test temp. Castrol, Connoco Phillips, Penzoil, Valvolene and all major brands do that for the extended heat-range protection it affords. While that certainly does not disparage oils using different base stocks and lower amounts of dynamic viscocity modifiers (hence they show less change from virgin to used) , it is merely a differnt approach to engine protection. All additives are trade-offs, but so is using vs not using certain ones and how much is used. What that testing correctly reflects (and I bet Connoco Phillips could confirm it for the MC 5W50) is that it's essentially a 30W oil that has lots of cold-flow modifiers (to achieve 5W) and lots of dynamic hot modifiers to entend the protection range well above the standard testing temp range. This seems an excellent strategy -- it's just a differnt approach than the niche oil makers take, bu I think it would be very wrong to conclude those red 'shear' numbers imply some sort of problem with the oil. Seems to be it's working as designed. Maybe someone with contacts inside Conoco Phillips or one of the other major oil research labs has more insight on that. That said, in a clearanced pushrod race engine, I'll take a high-zinc low-shear race oil with very few modifiers. But in a tight-tolerence DOHC roller production motor -- even one making 800rwHP -- I think I'll take the highly modified chemistry ...for al lthe reasons previously discussed of where nearly all wear occurs -- cold-soak start-up (even in Florida at 90* overnite). Oil film bearing protection is essentially a threasholding phenomenon. If there's no physical contact under hot load for a given temp range (whether the oil is at a cSt of 10 or 30 or 50) there's essentially no hot wear. That's also affected by bearing clearances and pressure. More viscocity that is needed to 'float' the bearing merely reduces flow -- it does not protect better sinc eno-contact is no contact. I realize I'm generalizing but wanted to put some explanation on why those shear numbers in red really are quite meaninless, imo, in these engines.



Thanks ;)



Some thoughts in blue above ...not trying to open a new debate -lol- just trying to respond in the context of Speedy168's question since I suspect he's not alone in wondering. All those red numbers are saying is that at a specific cSt test temp those oils changed more vs virgin (and likely did it in the first 800 miles or so) but in no way does it imply they are not eminently suitable for broad-range protection in these specific engines and should not, imo, be interpreted as bad/'red' for the above reasons.

Edited by 68fastback, 25 July 2011 - 06:02 PM.


"There's no magic involved in racing, just science and physics." --Austin Coil, Force Racing head crew-chief

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clark, noted author and futurist

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein

"I'm not going to take this defeatist attitude and listen to all this crap any more from all these people who have nothing except doomsday to predict." --Carroll Hall Shelby

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what can't be done." --Henry Ford

"Your worth consists in what you are and not in what you have." --Thomas Alva Edison

"One man with courage is a majority." --Thomas Jefferson



#7 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:19 PM

I prefer Motorcraft better when it has sheared, and the "red" as you stated is not there to imply the oil isn't adequate. I only highlight it as a "Ford is comfortable with this happening", so other alternatives in oil formulations can be considered. I've calculated HT/HS of Motorcraft to be ~3.1 after it has sheared 2,000 miles. Amsoil 10W-30 HT/HS = 3.2

I chose Amsoil 10W-40 first as a half way testing point with a cSt of 14.6 @ 100*C - HT/HS 4.6, rated to be slightly more viscous than Motorcraft after it has sheared. Two UOAs and 4,124 miles later, it performed better than MC 5W-50.

Now I'm testing Amsoil 10W-30 as a final step. Both virgin 10W-40 and virgin 10W-30 are less viscous than virgin 5W-50 at all temps from 32*F-100*F, so cold start up should produce less wear with 10W-30 & 10W-40. MC (~12.8-13.0 cSt) sheared is less viscous than 10W-40 (~14.5 cSt) after 2,000 miles of use, with 10W-30 being less viscous than MC (~10.5 cSt).

Here's the kicker! Using a 170* thermostat, my oil temps have decreased. Cooler engine, cooler oil temps. Less viscous lubricants also conduct heat more efficiently. This is why a lighter 30 grade is possible, IMO. Will follow up with more UOAs at every 2,000 mile interval.

This isn't a debate....it's the sharing of experiences. ;)

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 25 July 2011 - 06:22 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   68fastback

68fastback

    Need DOHC alloy big-block!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,094 posts
  • Joined 04-May 06
  • Region:Northeast

Posted 25 July 2011 - 07:21 PM

I prefer Motorcraft better when it has sheared, and the "red" as you stated is not there to imply the oil isn't adequate. I only highlight it as a "Ford is comfortable with this happening", so other alternatives in oil formulations can be considered. I've calculated HT/HS of Motorcraft to be ~3.1 after it has sheared 2,000 miles. Amsoil 10W-30 HT/HS = 3.2

I chose Amsoil 10W-40 first as a half way testing point with a cSt of 14.6 @ 100*C - HT/HS 4.6, rated to be slightly more viscous than Motorcraft after it has sheared. Two UOAs and 4,124 miles later, it performed better than MC 5W-50.

Now I'm testing Amsoil 10W-30 as a final step. Both virgin 10W-40 and virgin 10W-30 are less viscous than virgin 5W-50 at all temps from 32*F-100*F, so cold start up should produce less wear with 10W-30 & 10W-40. MC (~12.8-13.0 cSt) sheared is less viscous than 10W-40 (~14.5 cSt) after 2,000 miles of use, with 10W-30 being less viscous than MC (~10.5 cSt).

Here's the kicker! Using a 170* thermostat, my oil temps have decreased. Cooler engine, cooler oil temps. Less viscous lubricants also conduct heat more efficiently. This is why a lighter 30 grade is possible, IMO. Will follow up with more UOAs at every 2,000 mile interval.

This isn't a debate....it's the sharing of experiences. ;)




True!

I'm also thinking that specs like ISLAC and GF-n (which primarily address valvetrain lubricity and cold latency) are also important considerations, especially for these engines, that likely are not refelcted in the highly simplified UOA tests which are primarily for operational trending and symptom analysis but not a substitute for the broadly rigorous testing for many of the other specifications used to formulate and evaluate oil.

Still, knowledge is power and your data and information is valuable.

I tink we do need to realize that there are many steps on the learning scale and each one invariably reveals more closed doors to be opened each often exponentially more complex. There are many learning models but all that I'm aware of embrace the notion of step-wise integration, for example: data => information => understanding => knowledge => wisdom. On such a deeply scientific subject we'd be doing exceptionally well indeed if we get to fully embrace integrating your UOA data unambiguously into truly portable information that can be applied more broadly. A true understanding likely requires a PhD in chemical/molecular enginineering with a concentration in computational fluid dynamics. I know I definately don't qualify -lol ;)


"There's no magic involved in racing, just science and physics." --Austin Coil, Force Racing head crew-chief

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clark, noted author and futurist

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein

"I'm not going to take this defeatist attitude and listen to all this crap any more from all these people who have nothing except doomsday to predict." --Carroll Hall Shelby

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what can't be done." --Henry Ford

"Your worth consists in what you are and not in what you have." --Thomas Alva Edison

"One man with courage is a majority." --Thomas Jefferson



#9 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 25 July 2011 - 09:19 PM

I know I definately don't qualify -lol ;)


Nor do I, but gathering of information is fun. Making sense of it is even more enjoyable. When you really figure out what just happened, that's when you really feel good about it.

#10 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:16 PM

My latest creation. Here is an easy chart to know what to use in your Shelby for the intended application.

Posted Image

#11 OFFLINE   68fastback

68fastback

    Need DOHC alloy big-block!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,094 posts
  • Joined 04-May 06
  • Region:Northeast

Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:47 PM

My latest creation. Here is an easy chart to know what to use in your Shelby for the intended application.

Posted Image




:finger:

...so that would be for those comfortable with choosing an oil based on simplistic UOA/two-temp viscocity testing and who aren't interested in the WSS-M2C931-B spec additive pack -- which was specifically engineered to provide low start-up latency, enbhanced wear and oxidation protection under severe operating conditions, and enhanced resistance to deposit formation, among other things.
:doh:


"There's no magic involved in racing, just science and physics." --Austin Coil, Force Racing head crew-chief

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clark, noted author and futurist

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein

"I'm not going to take this defeatist attitude and listen to all this crap any more from all these people who have nothing except doomsday to predict." --Carroll Hall Shelby

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what can't be done." --Henry Ford

"Your worth consists in what you are and not in what you have." --Thomas Alva Edison

"One man with courage is a majority." --Thomas Jefferson



#12 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:34 AM

to provide low start-up latency,


5W-50 is much more viscous @ 32*F (0*C) than Amsoil 10W-40 and 10W-30. That being said, both Amsoil formulations will provide much better cold start wear protection. Also considering Amsoil has ester additives that will allow the oil to better adhere to metal surfaces in the valve train and not all drain to the pan.

enhanced wear and oxidation protection under severe operating conditions, and enhanced resistance to deposit formation, among other things.


I'm confused here. Are you suggesting that Amsoil isn't capable of these things as well as Motorcraft 5W-50 just because Amsoil doesn't carry the Ford spec?

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 04 August 2011 - 10:39 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   68fastback

68fastback

    Need DOHC alloy big-block!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,094 posts
  • Joined 04-May 06
  • Region:Northeast

Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:22 AM

5W-50 is much more viscous @ 32*F (0*C) than Amsoil 10W-40 and 10W-30. That being said, both Amsoil formulations will provide much better cold start wear protection. Also considering Amsoil has ester additives that will allow the oil to better adhere to metal surfaces in the valve train and not all drain to the pan.



I'm confused here. Are you suggesting that Amsoil isn't capable of these things as well as Motorcraft 5W-50 just because Amsoil doesn't carry the Ford spec?



I'm saying that simplistic UOA testing is selling-short the overall engineering implications behind a manufacturer's detailed oil specification and it's associated operational characteristics.

Edited by 68fastback, 04 August 2011 - 11:23 AM.


"There's no magic involved in racing, just science and physics." --Austin Coil, Force Racing head crew-chief

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clark, noted author and futurist

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein

"I'm not going to take this defeatist attitude and listen to all this crap any more from all these people who have nothing except doomsday to predict." --Carroll Hall Shelby

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what can't be done." --Henry Ford

"Your worth consists in what you are and not in what you have." --Thomas Alva Edison

"One man with courage is a majority." --Thomas Jefferson



#14 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 04 August 2011 - 01:31 PM

I agree, there are more in a formulation that a UOA can't see. I still haven't found anything unique of MC 5W-50 other than all of the extra VI to make it have that much of a viscosity spread. The engine doesn't require that much viscosity for daily driving.

#15 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:50 PM

Fastback,

I updated the chart with a new sample from a 2012 GT500. 5,000 miles on the factory fill.

#16 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:51 PM

Fastback,

I updated the chart. I have a sample from a 2012 GT500. 5,000 miles on the factory fill.

#17 OFFLINE   Imatk

Imatk

    Team Shelby Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 775 posts
  • Joined 04-November 08

Posted 02 September 2011 - 08:09 AM

In layman's terms. What do the numbers mean ? Why are some red ? Posted Image



THIS ^^^

#18 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 02 September 2011 - 09:40 AM

The % of shear is in red for reference that Motorcraft 5W-50 shears rapidly, but that's OK....Ford wants it to shear. This is why I choose robust 40 grade lubricants that will not shear at all.

The TBN numbers that are in red are getting very low, anything less than 1.0 is critical. Motorcraft 5W-50 virgin TBN is probably about 9ish.

#19 OFFLINE   Secondo

Secondo

    Stangs Unleashed and Team Shelby Member since 2006

  • Northeast Region
  • 5,150 posts
  • Joined 08-September 06
  • Region:Northeast
  • Interests:Raising my 3 boys!!

Posted 02 September 2011 - 09:44 AM

5W-50 is much more viscous @ 32*F (0*C) than Amsoil 10W-40 and 10W-30. That being said, both Amsoil formulations will provide much better cold start wear protection. Also considering Amsoil has ester additives that will allow the oil to better adhere to metal surfaces in the valve train and not all drain to the pan.

The GT500 owner's manual does not recommend driving below 40*.

I'm saying that simplistic UOA testing is selling-short the overall engineering implications behind a manufacturer's detailed oil specification and it's associated operational characteristics.

+1


I agree, there are more in a formulation that a UOA can't see. I still haven't found anything unique of MC 5W-50 other than all of the extra VI to make it have that much of a viscosity spread. The engine doesn't require that much viscosity for daily driving.

And how many GT500 owners just "daily drive" their cars, especially in cold weather?

#20 OFFLINE   2010KB

2010KB

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 55 posts
  • Joined 09-February 10

Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:14 PM

I have created a neat Excel spreadsheet to compare/contrast every Shelby 5.4L UOA I have ever collected. I need more samples to show trends. ;)

Posted Image

Some of you will notice your UOA is included, as I have snatched a few UOAs from Team Shelby forums. If you have a UOA on your 5.4L Shelby engine that isn't on the list, please post it here for all to see, and I will update this picture with your information.

The poll is to get an idea what everyone is using in their Shelby for engine lubrication. If you chose the "other" option.....please post what you are using in your engine. If anyone needs to know where to get oil testing, visit one of the website links below. Please, if you have your oil tested with Blackstone....opt for the extra $10.00 to have TBN tested. OAI provides TBN testing included with the price. OAI also tests for oxidation (Blackstone does not). Both labs will yield very close consistent results.

Blackstone - will cost $25.00 for basic test, $35.00 with TBN, plus the cost of shipping ($1.90 USPS)

OAI testing kits UPS prepaid - will cost $32.20 - Amsoil preferred customers get this test for $25.95

I'm currently testing the performance of Amsoil 10W-30 in my engine, results to come soon.

2010kb using Lubrication Engineers 8800 MONOLEC ULTRA 15w40

#21 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 16 September 2011 - 08:10 AM

The GT500 owner's manual does not recommend driving below 40*.

And how many GT500 owners just "daily drive" their cars, especially in cold weather?


The car was not recommended for cold weather use with the OEM set of Goodyear F1 tires. No other reason why this car couldn't be driven in temperatures lower than 40*F. Those who do changed their factory tires to all season tires.

Amsoil 10W-40 is less viscous at 30*C (90*F) as well compared to Motorcraft 5W-50. I see what you are trying to get at, but your assumptions are incorrect. My choices and suggestions of Amsoil are superior to the recommended fluid from Ford in every way. This is a NO compromise choice. See the viscosity versus temperature comparison on the chart below (lower numbers are better here for cold engine start up wear).

Before Motorcraft 5W-50 has sheared
Posted Image

After Motorcraft 5W-50 has sheared
Posted Image

You will see that Amsoil 10W-40 is much less viscous at 30*C (90*F) before MC 5W-50 shears, and close to the same viscosity at the same temperature after MC 5W-50 shears. The samples of MC sheared were taken from three different Shelby's using MC 5W-50. For reference...know that Amsoil 10W-40 will shear only 2% after 4,000 miles. MC 5W-50 shears 30+ percent after that many miles. The sample of Amsoil 20W-50 sheared 8-9%. Everyone who switched from MC 5W-50 to Amsoil 10W-40 immediately noticed more engine response and efficiency. They also noticed better mpg after a few tanks of fuel.


No offense to 68fastback, but it seems that he and select few others rely on Ford to tell them what is best for their car. Well heck, if that was the case....no aftermarket parts and goodies would exist for any car they build. Ford wouldn't have suggested such a viscous fluid for the MT-82 Getrag in the new 5.0 and Boss cars either. Trust me, Ford engineers are not perfect.

2010kb using Lubrication Engineers 8800 MONOLEC ULTRA 15w40


I would love to have a UOA of it when you change it.

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 16 September 2011 - 08:22 AM.


#22 OFFLINE   2010KB

2010KB

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 55 posts
  • Joined 09-February 10

Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:50 AM

The car was not recommended for cold weather use with the OEM set of Goodyear F1 tires. No other reason why this car couldn't be driven in temperatures lower than 40*F. Those who do changed their factory tires to all season tires.

Amsoil 10W-40 is less viscous at 30*C (90*F) as well compared to Motorcraft 5W-50. I see what you are trying to get at, but your assumptions are incorrect. My choices and suggestions of Amsoil are superior to the recommended fluid from Ford in every way. This is a NO compromise choice. See the viscosity versus temperature comparison on the chart below (lower numbers are better here for cold engine start up wear).

Before Motorcraft 5W-50 has sheared
Posted Image

After Motorcraft 5W-50 has sheared
Posted Image

You will see that Amsoil 10W-40 is much less viscous at 30*C (90*F) before MC 5W-50 shears, and close to the same viscosity at the same temperature after MC 5W-50 shears. The samples of MC sheared were taken from three different Shelby's using MC 5W-50. For reference...know that Amsoil 10W-40 will shear only 2% after 4,000 miles. MC 5W-50 shears 30+ percent after that many miles. The sample of Amsoil 20W-50 sheared 8-9%. Everyone who switched from MC 5W-50 to Amsoil 10W-40 immediately noticed more engine response and efficiency. They also noticed better mpg after a few tanks of fuel.


No offense to 68fastback, but it seems that he and select few others rely on Ford to tell them what is best for their car. Well heck, if that was the case....no aftermarket parts and goodies would exist for any car they build. Ford wouldn't have suggested such a viscous fluid for the MT-82 Getrag in the new 5.0 and Boss cars either. Trust me, Ford engineers are not perfect.



I would love to have a UOA of it when you change it.


I will provide one at the next change which is due in about 2K miles. I like to do them as close as possible mileage wise from one to the next. Last one was done at 4K and have 6K+ on it now so I have a little ways to go.

#23 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 19 September 2011 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, all contributions to the cause are greatly appreciated.

#24 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 24 September 2011 - 03:51 PM

Many more samples have been added to post #1. Trends are beginning to show, but I still need more samples.

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 24 September 2011 - 03:51 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   68fastback

68fastback

    Need DOHC alloy big-block!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,094 posts
  • Joined 04-May 06
  • Region:Northeast

Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:15 PM

Realize the UoAs are using Kinematic cSt (flow through a hole time) to measure viscocity. As you can see from the chart, most oils fall in a realtive narrow band using such a simplistic test. There are also many different types of dynamic viscocity tests. Many of the high technology additives are designed to address specific characteristics of flow under *stress* and how those additives modify how an oil reacts to stress dynamics, i.e. oil dynamicall performs differently while under physical stresses because under such dynamic conditions energy is put directly into the oil. cSt reflects none of that. cSt is similar to way you measure the viscocity of paint -- which is a good measure for paint since it incurrs virtually no dynamics. cSt is also much easier and cheaper to test for and while it's an excellent test to plot flow @ temperature it says nothing of the oil's ability to support energy-indiced stress dynamics.

If you were to test, for example, Castrol 5W50 from 7-8 years ago and Castrol Edge (the one that replaces Syntec) you'd likely find them to be virtually identical in a UoA test, but varying in important ways in the battery of complex dynamic stress tests (some standard, some proprietary to individual development labs). Anyhow,my point is that it's a mistake to think you can select an oil based on a a simplistic UoA test that's designed to check adequacy of basic Kinematic (cSt) viscocity at verious temps and metals/minerals content.

Yes, everyone makes mistakes now and then -- and one of them just might be thinking a UoA is an appropriate test to select motor oils with.

When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail, and while you can pound a hyodermic needle into a block of wood faster with a hammer and might even be usefull to determine the sharpness of the needle, it's an inappropriate method to evaluate the suitability of various hypodermics for proper phlebotomatic procedures -lol- just sayin'. Ok, an imperfect analogy for sure, but you get the point (pun intended -lol).


"There's no magic involved in racing, just science and physics." --Austin Coil, Force Racing head crew-chief

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clark, noted author and futurist

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein

"I'm not going to take this defeatist attitude and listen to all this crap any more from all these people who have nothing except doomsday to predict." --Carroll Hall Shelby

"I am looking for a lot of men who have an infinite capacity to not know what can't be done." --Henry Ford

"Your worth consists in what you are and not in what you have." --Thomas Alva Edison

"One man with courage is a majority." --Thomas Jefferson



#26 OFFLINE   jerseygator

jerseygator

    "Burnout Boy"

  • Northeast Region
  • 11,130 posts
  • Joined 13-May 09
  • Region:Northeast
  • Interests:God, Family, Cars, Football...

Posted 25 September 2011 - 04:00 AM

I use Motorcraft 5w 50. Just changed it and voted.

Stupid questions...
What is UOA?
And what is "shearing" in the spreadsheet? I see that Motorcraft is highlighted in red. Why?

2009 GT500 "Stickers"
#1534 of 3004 coupes; #378 of 651 Performance White w/ Vista Blue stripes

Celebrity Pick All Fords Nationals, Carlisle 2010 "Clean & Correct"
Celebrity Pick All Fords Nationals, Carlisle 2012 "Track History"

47,000 miles.... It isn't a FLOWER!

Shelby Alcoa 20" rims w/ Nitto Invo's 255/35ZR front, 295/35ZR rear, Shelby LCA Relocation brackets; Shelby Short Throw Shifter, FRPP Cold-Air intake; FRPP Strut Tower Brace; JDM Engineering Tune; L&M Plenum (port matched blower); KR Exhaust; SPEC Super Twin S-Trim Clutch; AM Sequential taillights; CDC Hood Struts; Shelby Kicker Premium upgrade; Shelby GT500 Door sill; Lloyds GT500 floor mats, Visor and Dash plaque signed by Mr Shelby; Shelby 50th fender stripe... And decals GALORE!

 

TiltedKilt22014_zps2096ca67.jpg

 

2004 Jeep Rubicon Jeep wrote the book on 4X4
1931 Model A Pickup Original resotration

 


#27 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 25 September 2011 - 11:08 AM

I use Motorcraft 5w 50. Just changed it and voted.

Stupid questions...
What is UOA?
And what is "shearing" in the spreadsheet? I see that Motorcraft is highlighted in red. Why?


Used Oil Analysis

I agree that they are a narrow scope of view, and I wish we had something that was a much larger viewing angle.

#28 OFFLINE   Secondo

Secondo

    Stangs Unleashed and Team Shelby Member since 2006

  • Northeast Region
  • 5,150 posts
  • Joined 08-September 06
  • Region:Northeast
  • Interests:Raising my 3 boys!!

Posted 25 September 2011 - 04:35 PM

The car was not recommended for cold weather use with the OEM set of Goodyear F1 tires. No other reason why this car couldn't be driven in temperatures lower than 40*F. Those who do changed their factory tires to all season tires.

Amsoil 10W-40 is less viscous at 30*C (90*F) as well compared to Motorcraft 5W-50. I see what you are trying to get at, but your assumptions are incorrect. My choices and suggestions of Amsoil are superior to the recommended fluid from Ford in every way. This is a NO compromise choice. See the viscosity versus temperature comparison on the chart below (lower numbers are better here for cold engine start up wear).

You will see that Amsoil 10W-40 is much less viscous at 30*C (90*F) before MC 5W-50 shears, and close to the same viscosity at the same temperature after MC 5W-50 shears. The samples of MC sheared were taken from three different Shelby's using MC 5W-50. For reference...know that Amsoil 10W-40 will shear only 2% after 4,000 miles. MC 5W-50 shears 30+ percent after that many miles. The sample of Amsoil 20W-50 sheared 8-9%. Everyone who switched from MC 5W-50 to Amsoil 10W-40 immediately noticed more engine response and efficiency. They also noticed better mpg after a few tanks of fuel.


No offense to 68fastback, but it seems that he and select few others rely on Ford to tell them what is best for their car. Well heck, if that was the case....no aftermarket parts and goodies would exist for any car they build. Ford wouldn't have suggested such a viscous fluid for the MT-82 Getrag in the new 5.0 and Boss cars either. Trust me, Ford engineers are not perfect.

That is correct, Ford recommended not driving the GT500 below 40* because of the tires. Changing the tires to a lesser-performance all-season tire that cannot handle the vehicle's performance capabilities will create an unsafe condition; in addition, I also believe the oil that must be used for it was designed to be operated above 40* due to the high-performance nature of this vehicle.

Do you have any proof or data to support your claim that Amsoil users "noticed more engine response and efficiency..." and better mpg than using the Ford recommended Motorcraft oil?

While I give you credit for running your own tests and sharing with us on the different brand motor oils, I believe that you are out of line for saying that we should not "rely" on Ford for telling us what oil is best for their car and for throwing Ford engineers under the bus. After all, they are your own tests for which you are interpreting the results of those tests on the basis of selling Amsoil oil for which you are a salesman for. And again, after all, remember that Ford designed and manufacured the car itself. So yes, I will trust Ford for letting me know which oil would be best for the car that they designed.

MC full-synthetic motor oil "Designed, engineered and recommended for use in the Ford GT and Shelby GT500..."


Posted Image


Posted Image


It is a no-brainer to actually put the correct weight of oil in an engine especially when the manufacturer recommends it and manufactures its own oil for it. Do you put the recommended weight oil in your lawnmower? Why would you think the GT500 is worth any less? :headscratch: I don't believe that using an incorrect weight of Amsoil product would benefit any of us. I'm listening to what Ford recommends and not some unknown Amsoil salesman.

#29 OFFLINE   UnleashedBeast

UnleashedBeast

    Team Shelby New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 318 posts
  • Joined 16-November 10

Posted 25 September 2011 - 05:13 PM

That is correct, Ford recommended not driving the GT500 below 40* because of the tires. Changing the tires to a lesser-performance all-season tire that cannot handle the vehicle's performance capabilities will create an unsafe condition; in addition, I also believe the oil that must be used for it was designed to be operated above 40* due to the high-performance nature of this vehicle.


Most Shelby owners store their car during the winter months anyway....why is this even a topic?

Do you have any proof or data to support your claim that Amsoil users "noticed more engine response and efficiency..." and better mpg than using the Ford recommended Motorcraft oil?


Sure do....come on over to SVT Performance and poll some of the 5W-50 Red Line users about their switch to a true synthetic 10W-40. They will tell you the same story, as they are the ones that came to me saying i was right.

While I give you credit for running your own tests and sharing with us on the different brand motor oils, I believe that you are out of line for saying that we should not "rely" on Ford for telling us what oil is best for their car and for throwing Ford engineers under the bus. After all, they are your own tests for which you are interpreting the results of those tests on the basis of selling Amsoil oil for which you are a salesman for. And again, after all, remember that Ford designed and manufacured the car itself. So yes, I will trust Ford for letting me know which oil would be best for the car that they designed.


When it comes to a base line recommendation for a lubricant that will suffice in the car and allow for sufficient operation, sure...Ford knows exactly what they are doing. Since they are offering a lubricant that is only formulated for 3 cars on the planet, one of which has NOTHING in common with the other two, sounds like another profit margin to me. It would have been just as effective to suggest another grade of lubricant that was easy to find off the shelf. Motorcraft 5W-50 is an average formulation, and isn't anything special. The UOA chart proves that alone.

Saying they are "your own tests" is far from accurate. These UOAs have been collected from many different vehicles other than my own. Here is your second fault assumption....you assume that I only endorse Amsoil. That is untrue. I support the use of ANY true synthetic lubricant that is 10W-40 in the Shelby.....Red Line, Royal Purple, Amsoil....even Mobil 1 0W-40.

MC full-synthetic motor oil "Designed, engineered and recommended for use in the Ford GT and Shelby GT500..."


another successful profit maneuver by Ford.

It is a no-brainer to actually put the correct weight of oil in an engine especially when the manufacturer recommends it and manufactures its own oil for it. Do you put the recommended weight oil in your lawnmower? Why would you think the GT500 is worth any less? :headscratch: I don't believe that using an incorrect weight of Amsoil product would benefit any of us. I'm listening to what Ford recommends and not some unknown Amsoil salesman.


This is the quote that is entertaining me the most out of them all.

This is what you are actually saying to me....."It's correct to use a 5W-50 lubricant that is sold and endorsed by Ford because they say so. I will completely ignore the fact that is shears to a very heavy 30 grade/very light 40 grade lubricant in 1,500 to 2,000 miles....because I believe that it's always going to remain a 50 grade lubricant. I also love to be charged a premium price for a highly refined petroleum base stock with heavy amounts of viscosity improver polymers that wear out so fast....why did I even waste my time using their cheap lubricant in the first place...because Ford say they want to sell THEIR oil."

I also love how you feel a true synthetic 10W-40 is an incorrect weight for this car. Guess what Royal Purple highly recommends for the GT500....yep...10W-40. I bet you think that the "10W" lubricant will be more viscous @ 32*F compared to "5W" Motorcraft lubricant. Wrong again....SAE numbers are very misleading. True synthetic 10W-40 lubricants are lighter @ 32*F compared to Motorcraft 5W-50. While MC 5W-50 shears after 2,000 miles....it's very close to the same viscosity as a true synthetic 10W-40. Guess what, this means less start up wear compared to Motorcraft 5W-50.

I will say this over and over and over and over....those of you who still insist to use Motorcraft 5W-50 compared to a true synthetic 10W-40 are fools.

Edited by UnleashedBeast, 25 September 2011 - 05:17 PM.


#30 OFFLINE   Secondo

Secondo

    Stangs Unleashed and Team Shelby Member since 2006

  • Northeast Region
  • 5,150 posts
  • Joined 08-September 06
  • Region:Northeast
  • Interests:Raising my 3 boys!!

Posted 26 September 2011 - 08:59 AM

I don't care what you or Royal Purple say about which oil to use in my GT500. Ford designed the car, the engine and the oil for it. Have you thought that maybe Ford designed the oil that way? See quote:

I'm saying that simplistic UOA testing is selling-short the overall engineering implications behind a manufacturer's detailed oil specification and it's associated operational characteristics.


It's a no-brainer.

I thought you could have done better here as a motor oil salesman by not trashing Ford engineers and products and not calling us "fools" for using them.







0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users