204 replies to this topic

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Ecrissman, on 15 June 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

maybe a "better" fluid will help when cold.

It should.

If it does it when hot (like Boss Hoss 540), it's the syncro assembly that needs to be replaced.


Phill

[Ecrissman]

Well dont feel to bad about your grind, articles are surfacing everywhere that the new 2013 does it too.
http://www.svtperfor...gear-grind.html

http://www.insidelin...rison-test.html

[Roush GR40]

I have a '12 GT500 and although it doesn't grind int he 1-2 shift, I have found two other issues:

1) doesn't fully lock into 2nd...feels kind of rubbery, not ratchet like shift into other gears, and
2) while at an open track event @ VIR, I could not shift the car into 5th on the backstretch at speeds around 120...it simply wouldn't go in.

Anyone experiencing problems like this?

Edited by Roush GR40, 18 June 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[Helix]

The zl1 fans are going to eat this up...

[Ecrissman]

Helix, on 18 June 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

The zl1 fans are going to eat this up...

Yep they will be talking, honestly I dont care, I love my car. From a dig or a roll, I will represent the Shelby (as long as my tranny is warm :-)).
I dont believe everything I read, however this review even talks about the 2013 grinding. I was actually suprised the 2013 review wasn't really all that great by their account. Personally from the videos on you tube, other forums, on the street the ZL1 is pretty evenly matched up to a 2012 gt500 (when running them on the street). I havent read about any stock to stock runs with either car getting owned.  But on topic the ggrrrrrrrind still happened.

[Helix]

I'll always remain loyal to the Cobra; and I will never say the Camaro isn't awesome (definitively side with it over imports) or the Corvette for that matter. I just hate that there is a possible flaw that has been there for years.
Not only that, but I haven't heard anything about a real (as in actually reliable) review of the zl1 vs gt500.

Edit: someone posted on here the zl1 vs a Boss 302 on the street and the 2013 Boss 302 seemed to consistently defeat the Camaro.

Edited by Helix, 18 June 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Ecrissman]

Helix, on 18 June 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'll always remain loyal to the Cobra; and I will never say the Camaro isn't awesome (definitively side with it over imports) or the Corvette for that matter. I just hate that there is a possible flaw that has been there for years.
Not only that, but I haven't heard anything about a real (as in actually reliable) review of the zl1 vs gt500.

Edit: someone posted on here the zl1 vs a Boss 302 on the street and the 2013 Boss 302 seemed to consistently defeat the Camaro.

I have a feeling different magazines are going to have different results. Both are very new, wonder what things will look like in 6 months from now. I suppose I expected utter annihilation with the 13 gt500.

[BDrool]

Here is anothere theory, since I've been denied repair because it has to be catastrophic. The reason why the grind may happen more when everything is cold is because the tires are spinning. When the tires are hot and grabbing more they don't spin as easily. When the tires are spinning, the clutch goes down, wheels lose momentum quickly while trying to grab second. I don't think the syncros are up to the task of getting the gears lined up. At least, this is what I've been experiencing. I took as far as getting every thing warmed up and then doing a WOT 1-2 on some extra smooth pavement and the grind happened. With good grip, the grind isn't near as bad.

You would think the TC could/would stop this but, there is just too much rotating mass and the inertia is what is being fought. And, with the 2013's, it could be even mor prevalent with even more snap in the drive line to get things spinning.

Just a theory an my 2 cents worth...

[Helix]

Not a totally off-the-wall idea. I have read around here that someone said the problem is simply make sure the clutch is down all the way in order to shift without a grind. Obviously, I would not know for sure; however, he seemed fairly sure.
Another thought.

[Afdharley]

Only have about 600 miles on my 2011 and haven't really gotten on it yet. Tonight I was able to find a straight stretch and in first ran it up to almost 6000rpm, left my foot on the gas and power shifted into second...........got a little squirrly but definitely no grind.

I must be one of the lucky ones

[Ecrissman]

Grabbed this off the tremec website, this is what a tremec rep suggests for breaking of the syncro and the transmission in general.
Whatever you do, just make sure that you DO NOT USE gear oil in the transmission. Additionally, your idea to "break-in" the transmission using regular Dex III is not a bad one. Just remember that when breaking in a transmission, what you are really doing is "seating" the synchronizers. So remember you want to do plenty of stop-and-go activity, circulating through all the gears for a few hundred miles to ensure the best performance. Just jumping on the highway and shoving it in fifth gear won't really help anything.

[2010KB]

I would like to express my Thanks to Deysha and Jason at Ford Customer Service. My case for my 1-2 shift issue on my 2010 was turned over to Jason who kept me informed while the Shelby was at Texas Motors Ford being repaired. Parts replaced are as follows:

AR3Z 7124 BA Synchro Assy
8R3Z 7230 A Fork 1st and 2nd
AR3Z 7102 2nd Gear
AR3Z 7107 A Ring Synchro
7R3Z 7A082 Kit Trans Control
7R3Z 7107 A Synchro Blocking Ring
1R3Z 7L082 AA Gear Change Fork Insert
XT 11 QDC Fluid
MGW Shifter

The people and Service at Texas Motors Ford is outstanding. Service Manager Mike Bright, Service Writer Santos Pena and Service Tech par excellence, Win Horn, were great folks. I can't say enough. I spent a good hour talking to Win on the history of the 6060, the T-56 and what his thoughts are on what is going on with this transmission. All I can say is the car shifts better than the very first day and no grind. My only concern is that replacement parts are no different than what was taken out so at some point down the road, this issue may come back. I did a lot of back and forth with the Tremec Tech Support and Ford Customer Service. According to Tremec, they have made some changes to the internals, mainly 2nd gear and a change to a carbon fiber blocking ring instead of the sintered bronze ring. Not exactly sure what change/s/ were made to second gear. Tremec stated that when ordering new parts I should have received the updated parts however that was not the case. The blocking ring installed was of the sintered bronze design and second gear was the same as the original. We will see how this plays out since my original grind issue started at about 3K and ultimately got to the point of grinding at anytime over 3500 RPM at 8.7K. Win stated that in his experience, grinding seemed to occur at RPM's above 3500 in most cases he had seen.
One thing to note, Liberty Gear offers a carbon fiber blocking ring for the 6060, an upgraded 2nd gear, and also offers bronze fork pads for the shift forks instead of the plastic OE. If I ever have to go into the trans again, these parts will be installed.

My only concern about this whole matter was that I have yet to see any explanation on what is the root cause for the issue. I found it odd that Tremec has upgraded several components yet FORD installs original design parts. Not a big thing, just found it odd. Dealer has no say as to what they can install. They must install what is authorized under the warranty which is understandable.

One other item worth noting is that during the repair cycle, Ford Tech line was contacted regarding use of the Dual Clutch Transmission fluid which they agreed to go ahead and try. This fluid is a full synthetic, very light in viscosity, almost as thin as Mercon V and IMO feels slicker than Merc V. Win and I had a lengthy discussion on trans fluid and in his experience what he has seen over the years regarding ATF in manual tranny's. I am noting this in the event any of you would care to venture into changing out the current fluid for this type and see what happens. This is not an opportunity for everyone to jump on board and go off the deep end about using a non-spec'd fluid and how could I do such a thing. I trust the trans guy and I trust Ford Tech and after 40 some odd years of working on cars myself, I trust myself to agree this is worth trying.

In closing, not sure what makes this tranny perform so well now. I can't say if it is the shifter (definitely better than OEM that's for sure) the fluid, new parts or the time, care, and know how of the trans tech or it's a combination of all. It all works!

Again, hats off to FORD Customer Service - Jason and Deysha and Texas Motors Ford, Mike Bright, Santos Pena, and Win Horn.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[Ecrissman]

Will you keep us updated? I may try the fluid your dealer installed. I was leaning on mobil 1 because tremec has tested and used it. I like the fact that ford and tremec both agreed to try DC fluid it in your car. Makes me wonder what qualities dual clutch fluid has that regular spec fluid doesn't.

2010KB, on 11 July 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I would like to express my Thanks to Deysha and Jason at Ford Customer Service. My case for my 1-2 shift issue on my 2010 was turned over to Jason who kept me informed while the Shelby was at Texas Motors Ford being repaired. Parts replaced are as follows:

AR3Z 7124 BA Synchro Assy
8R3Z 7230 A Fork 1st and 2nd
AR3Z 7102 2nd Gear
AR3Z 7107 A Ring Synchro
7R3Z 7A082 Kit Trans Control
7R3Z 7107 A Synchro Blocking Ring
1R3Z 7L082 AA Gear Change Fork Insert
XT 11 QDC Fluid
MGW Shifter

The people and Service at Texas Motors Ford is outstanding. Service Manager Mike Bright, Service Writer Santos Pena and Service Tech par excellence, Win Horn, were great folks. I can't say enough. I spent a good hour talking to Win on the history of the 6060, the T-56 and what his thoughts are on what is going on with this transmission. All I can say is the car shifts better than the very first day and no grind. My only concern is that replacement parts are no different than what was taken out so at some point down the road, this issue may come back. I did a lot of back and forth with the Tremec Tech Support and Ford Customer Service. According to Tremec, they have made some changes to the internals, mainly 2nd gear and a change to a carbon fiber blocking ring instead of the sintered bronze ring. Not exactly sure what change/s/ were made to second gear. Tremec stated that when ordering new parts I should have received the updated parts however that was not the case. The blocking ring installed was of the sintered bronze design and second gear was the same as the original. We will see how this plays out since my original grind issue started at about 3K and ultimately got to the point of grinding at anytime over 3500 RPM at 8.7K. Win stated that in his experience, grinding seemed to occur at RPM's above 3500 in most cases he had seen.
One thing to note, Liberty Gear offers a carbon fiber blocking ring for the 6060, an upgraded 2nd gear, and also offers bronze fork pads for the shift forks instead of the plastic OE. If I ever have to go into the trans again, these parts will be installed.

My only concern about this whole matter was that I have yet to see any explanation on what is the root cause for the issue. I found it odd that Tremec has upgraded several components yet FORD installs original design parts. Not a big thing, just found it odd. Dealer has no say as to what they can install. They must install what is authorized under the warranty which is understandable.

One other item worth noting is that during the repair cycle, Ford Tech line was contacted regarding use of the Dual Clutch Transmission fluid which they agreed to go ahead and try. This fluid is a full synthetic, very light in viscosity, almost as thin as Mercon V and IMO feels slicker than Merc V. Win and I had a lengthy discussion on trans fluid and in his experience what he has seen over the years regarding ATF in manual tranny's. I am noting this in the event any of you would care to venture into changing out the current fluid for this type and see what happens. This is not an opportunity for everyone to jump on board and go off the deep end about using a non-spec'd fluid and how could I do such a thing. I trust the trans guy and I trust Ford Tech and after 40 some odd years of working on cars myself, I trust myself to agree this is worth trying.

In closing, not sure what makes this tranny perform so well now. I can't say if it is the shifter (definitely better than OEM that's for sure) the fluid, new parts or the time, care, and know how of the trans tech or it's a combination of all. It all works!

Again, hats off to FORD Customer Service - Jason and Deysha and Texas Motors Ford, Mike Bright, Santos Pena, and Win Horn.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[Radical08]

My transmission was rebuilt with the typical parts list about everyone else did, blocking ring, synchro, gear etc and after that Amsoil pure synthetic trans fluid went in, an MGW shifter and a transmission support brace that bolts the trans to the car frame so no more twisting and no more issues at all with anything.  I don't know what the deal is with these transmissions other than sub-standard crap parts that should have been corrected by now.  Even the 2013 has the grind.  Way back in my 93 / 5.0 with the T5 Trans there were zero issues.  Sounds like someone is trying to save a buck on not using quality parts and quality control.  My service department along with Ford Corporate assist did a great job as well.  Mine was one of the first as a 2010 and sat inside on a lift covered up waiting parts / repairs for 37 days.  One would not think that of a $50K plus car.

[Snoopy49]

Radical08, on 19 July 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Sounds like someone is trying to save a buck on not using quality parts and quality control.

How can you say that about a transmission that is made in Mexico (2013 GT500) or China (2013 GT)?

[IngotSilverSnake]

Snoopy49, on 19 July 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

How can you say that about a transmission that is made in Mexico (2013 GT500) or China (2013 GT)?

Actually, I think things made in Mexico are far better than anything made in China.  My 2001 Ram was made in Mexico and it is the best truck I have ever owned.  11 years and 90K miles with no major problems.  The TR-6060 (despite all the complaints) is a far better transmission (IMO) than the Getrag junk made in China.  For the record, the transmission on my 2012 is flawless (as is the rest of the car).

[Ecrissman]

Interesting, Ford put the amsoil in? I have only had the grind a couple times when cold, once when I thought it should have been warm enough. But I know the grind is possible if I am not careful. Amazing how many different things you read across different forums and how many have had such mixed results. Some just change fluid, motorcraft dual clutch, amsoil  and others mobil 1. Some fluid and new shifter. Some totally rebuilt or replaced transmissions still grind. I like the idea of the tranny brace, we used to chain the engine in the old days to limit the twist of the block and tranny which would result in better shifting especially with the borg warner t-10's. I am curious about this tranny brace. Also keep thinking about the n2mb wot box but haven't researched it enough to see if it ONLY works at WOT. I would rarely be running my car that way, more of aggressive 1-2 shifting when  doing burnouts. I always loved just melting them off 1st, 2nd and 3rd but wont even try it with this car until i do "something" to ensure i wont be chewing the synchros and the leading teeth off 2nd gear. I am absolutely amazed at all of the complaints from owners despite the vehicle and yet not a single manufacture has stepped up and posted an "official " TSB to make the repair. Someone somewhere knows whats causing it. I doubt all the vehicles use the same shifter (though i could be wrong). Not every driver doesn't know how to shift, and why some have no problems at all. Mine mostly happened at under 60 degrees within a mile or two from home. I had one instant that I was leaving a car show temp in the 80's was the worst grind ever because i expected it not to grind, when I yanked back refused to go in. Probably held it for a second or two in disbelief. For sure the most damaging, I want to drive with confidence, not in fear of a refused shift.

Edited by Ecrissman, 20 July 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[Snoopy49]

I would contact these folks and see what they recommend..

LIBERTY'S HIGH PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC
6390 PELHAM ROAD
TAYLOR, MICHIGAN 48180
313-278-4040
EMAIL libertysgears@aol.com

[Ecrissman]

Snoopy49, on 20 July 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

I would contact these folks and see what they recommend..

LIBERTY'S HIGH PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC
6390 PELHAM ROAD
TAYLOR, MICHIGAN 48180
313-278-4040
EMAIL libertysgears@aol.com

Thanks, they would be cool to talk about it?

[vapor08GT500]

This is a forum, many of you should be using the search part of this forum. I have had over 200 GT500's from 10-13 in my shop, including my own 10. I already posted the fix for those affected. I do get a kick out of the person that happened to NOT have a trans issue that started a thread with "13 GT500 transmission conclusion" !!! There is not conclusion, some have a synchro issue, while others do not.

Alex