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Sunbeam Tiger and Shelby?


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Poll: Sunbeam Tiger and Shelby? (18 member(s) have cast votes)

Is a Sunbeam Tiger a "real" Shelby?

  1. Yes (9 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. No (8 votes [44.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.44%

  3. Hard to determine. (1 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

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#1 OFFLINE   66TigerMk1A

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:03 PM

Please explain your answer/feelings on the subject.

I have personally had my Tiger put in the Shelby class at some shows and not allowed in others. Just wondering what the general opinion is.
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#2 OFFLINE   rocky

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

The tiger has a ford engine but it does not display any shelby badges,

#3 ONLINE   twobjshelbys

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

Yes, it is. Most car folks don't really know the linkage.
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#4 OFFLINE   Cali_KR

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:13 PM

Although Shelby was contacted and given funds to develop the car, Ken Miles did it on his own, in his own shop.

After the mule was built, the cars were built in the Jensen plant in UK without any Shelby involvment. In fact, in the end when Chrysler bought Rootes in 1967, they were Ford powered while carrying the Chrysler Insignia on the front fenders...The small block 283 wouldn't fit as the distributor was in the back, and as such not enough clearance. Good bye Tiger.

The West Coast Sales Manager of Rootes American Motors Inc., Ian Garrad, realized that the Alpine's image was that of a touring car rather than a sports car, and he, along with Richard R. Hovis set about changing its image, using the recent success of the Shelby Cobra as a guide. He and Rootes' Western Service Manager Walter McKenzie measured up several V8 engines and determined that Ford's new 164 hp (122 kW) 260 cu in (4.3 L) Windsor V8 engine would fit nicely between the frame rails.
Sunbeam asked Carroll Shelby to produce one functional prototype on a budget of $10,000. Shelby's prototype was designed by Richard R. Hovis, and fabricated by Shelby employee George Boskoff, and the result was judged to be good enough to send to England for production evaluation.
Seeking reassurance everything would fit, a second Series 2 Alpine was handed to Ken Miles. A talented racer and fabricator in his own right, Miles had just been employed by Shelby American. Using his own shop facilities, he managed to install a 260 cu.in. V8 and two-speed automatic into the Alpine in less than a week, at a total cost of $600. Having served its feasibility study purpose, the Miles prototype was kept by Rootes Motors Inc. Los Angeles for some time until its sale to a private buyer.

I was a Tiger owner for 8 years, but never considered it a Shelby, and never had it in the Shelby class, rather, my thought is it belongs in the "special interest" category.

I miss mine, and after seeing two fine examples at the Cobra Reunion this past weekend, I realized how much so....
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#5 OFFLINE   Torch40

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:21 PM

I'm going with TD and a no vote on a Tiger being a Shelby. It's a Tiger. Nothing wrong with that.
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#6 OFFLINE   66TigerMk1A

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:41 PM

Although Shelby was contacted and given funds to develop the car, Ken Miles did it on his own, in his own shop.


Not completely correct. Ken Miles made a second prototype that failed miserably as the Alpine's steering box was retained and the V8 sat too far forward and was attached to a slushbox. The Shelby shop built Tiger is what went to production.

An interesting fact - Shelby was paid a royalty for each of the 7058 Tigers sold.

Ken Miles Prototype - Tiger #1 - http://www.classicti...tos/proto-1.htm

Carroll Shelby Prototype - Tiger #2 - http://www.classicti...tos/proto-2.htm

Edited by 66TigerMk1A, 25 April 2012 - 03:57 PM.

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#7 OFFLINE   Cali_KR

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:34 AM

An interesting fact - Shelby was paid a royalty for each of the 7058 Tigers sold.


Thanx for the reminder...I'd forgotten this bit of info as it has been 20 years since I read Chris Taylors book...

No doubt of the history, but in my opinion it still isn't a Shelby. If being touched, tested, advised were the criteria, then the GT40 (when the Deuce hired 'ol Shel to beat Ferraris ass), the Toyota 2000GT, the Viper and the new gen FordGT, by extension would all be considered Shelbys.

The Tiger has a very unique place in automotive history, and as a previous owner, nothing but respect for the marque. Again, just my opinion regarding your initial question of car show placement...if you're in it for the carshow hardware, I'm thinking you'd do better in the special interest category.

Hang on to that car, the prices seem to be climbing, and they are damn fun to drive too...always liked the surprised looks on peoples faces when you pull up beside them and instead a 4cyl sewing machine, they'd hear the rumble of that wonderful Ford small block.

Have a great car show season.

Edited by Cali_KR, 26 April 2012 - 07:37 AM.

2012 Shelby Run Europe Participant
8 countries covering 3148 (s)miles


2008 GT500KR #552, Silver/Blue, fully optioned. CS signed visor, 2012 50th Anniversary Shelby Bash Car Show 'class' Award Winner

2009 GT500KR #551 Red/silver

2006 GT-H #368 (Phoenix Hertz)

1968 GT500KR, owned since 1991. 61k original mile car. * 85th Birthday Bash Car Show Award Winner * * SAAC-35 popular vote 1st. Place Award Winner *

2012 BOSS 302 #1212

2001 Bullitt, DHG #5195

Past important rides....to me anyways...

1965 Sunbeam Tiger MK1 (260 V-8)
1967 Mustang Fastback (289)
1968 Mustang Coupe (289, track car built to replicate Trans Am B-prod)
1969 Mustang conv. (302)
1965 Corvette conv. (327)
1970 Dodge RT Challenger (383 Magnum)
1975 Trans Am (400ci 4sp)
1979 Mustang Indy Pace car (5.0L)
1986 Corvette Indy Pace Car convertible
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L
2008 GT500 Ebony Convertible/Alloy stripe/black w/red seats (every option) #109 of 682 Ebony verts,
1 of 235 Ebony 'verts w/ red seat inserts, 1 of 309 with alloy side stripe.
* 2010 Shelby Bash Car Show Award Winner * Sold, Dec 29, 2010

2 SHO's, many Harleys......

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#8 OFFLINE   66TigerMk1A

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:50 AM

Hang on to that car, the prices seem to be climbing, and they are damn fun to drive too...always liked the surprised looks on peoples faces when you pull up beside them and instead a 4cyl sewing machine, they'd hear the rumble of that wonderful Ford small block.

Have a great car show season.


Thanks!

I think the worrd is getting out in my area about my Tiger. Not too many people want to play anymore.
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#9 OFFLINE   Cali_KR

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:54 AM

Thanks!

I think the worrd is getting out in my area about my Tiger. Not too many people want to play anymore.


small car with skinny tires = big time ass whoopin' :worship: love the youtube clip :rockon:
2012 Shelby Run Europe Participant
8 countries covering 3148 (s)miles


2008 GT500KR #552, Silver/Blue, fully optioned. CS signed visor, 2012 50th Anniversary Shelby Bash Car Show 'class' Award Winner

2009 GT500KR #551 Red/silver

2006 GT-H #368 (Phoenix Hertz)

1968 GT500KR, owned since 1991. 61k original mile car. * 85th Birthday Bash Car Show Award Winner * * SAAC-35 popular vote 1st. Place Award Winner *

2012 BOSS 302 #1212

2001 Bullitt, DHG #5195

Past important rides....to me anyways...

1965 Sunbeam Tiger MK1 (260 V-8)
1967 Mustang Fastback (289)
1968 Mustang Coupe (289, track car built to replicate Trans Am B-prod)
1969 Mustang conv. (302)
1965 Corvette conv. (327)
1970 Dodge RT Challenger (383 Magnum)
1975 Trans Am (400ci 4sp)
1979 Mustang Indy Pace car (5.0L)
1986 Corvette Indy Pace Car convertible
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L
2008 GT500 Ebony Convertible/Alloy stripe/black w/red seats (every option) #109 of 682 Ebony verts,
1 of 235 Ebony 'verts w/ red seat inserts, 1 of 309 with alloy side stripe.
* 2010 Shelby Bash Car Show Award Winner * Sold, Dec 29, 2010

2 SHO's, many Harleys......

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#10 OFFLINE   2010KonaBlueGT

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

No doubt of the history, but in my opinion it still isn't a Shelby. If being touched, tested, advised were the criteria, then the GT40 (when the Deuce hired 'ol Shel to beat Ferraris ass), the Toyota 2000GT, the Viper and the new gen FordGT, by extension would all be considered Shelbys.


I completely agree with Cali KR...Calling a Sunbeam Tiger a Shelby would be like calling a Pontiac GTO a Delorean.

Just because John Delorean had his hands in it, doesn't make it a Delorean. The same goes with a Tiger;

Just because Carroll Shelby had his hands in it, doesn't make it a Shelby.


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#11 OFFLINE   2010KonaBlueGT

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

Should we call a Mustang a Iaccoca?


Phill

Edited by 2010KonaBlueGT, 26 April 2012 - 08:19 AM.

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CURRENT MODS: FRPP: Whipple 2.9L Polished Superchager w/Crusher Inlet & Cobra Jet dual 65mm Throttle Body - Ceramic Coated Shorty Headers - Ford Blue Cam Covers - Polished Billet COP & Oil filler Cap Covers - FR3 Handling Pack w/Tokico Struts/Shocks & Eibach Swaybars - Jounce Bumpers - 8.8" Low Profile Axle Girdle - 3" Front Brake Cooling Ducts - Vacuum/Boost Gauge~ MGW: Short Throw Shifter - White w/Blue Stripes Shifter Knob - Radiator and Intercooler Degas Bottle Caps - Seat Recliner Lever Covers - Parking Brake Handle Cover - Coat Hanger Hooks~ PST: 1-piece Carbon Fiber Driveshaft~ Revan Racing: C&R Radiator and Intercooler~ ROUSH: 3x Intercooler Degas Bottle - Side Splitters - Extreme Off-road Exhaust - Adjustable Trailing Arms (LCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link (UCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link Bracket - AC Vent Pod Vac/Boost Gauge Mount~ SHELBY: SC Aux. Idler Pulley - Oil Dipstick Handle, MC, PS & WS Washer Reservoir Caps - 8-qt. Oil Pan - Subframe K-member - Tubular Front A-arms - 6S Extreme Front Brakes - KR Style Front Brake Duct Bezels - Anti Bump-stear Tie-rod Ends - Race Style Swaybar Links - Adjustable Caster/Camber Plates - Adjustable Panhard Bar - Panhard Bar/Body Brace - KR Rear Axle Reservoir - Eradispeed Rear Brake Rotors & Caliper Relocation Brackets - Shelby/BMR Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets -18" GT500KR Alcoa Dura-Bright Wheels & Goodyear KR Winged Boot F1 Supercar tires~

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#12 OFFLINE   JeffJ

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:26 AM

Pretty much as much as a Dodge Viper being a Shelby I would think. Carroll was heavily involved in the design and development of that car also. Doubt you will find many Viper owners calling them Shelby's. Although you might......

Edited by JeffJ, 26 April 2012 - 09:28 AM.

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#13 OFFLINE   shelbymotorsports

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

Both Phil & Jeff posted some perfect examples on why the Tiger should not be considered a Shelby model. Another example would be the GT40.

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#14 OFFLINE   rocky

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

I owned a tiger with a 260 ci ford engine and nowhere on or in the car was there anything with the shelby name, it was a tiger and in its own right a very interesting car to say the least....

#15 OFFLINE   66TigerMk1A

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

nowhere on or in the car was there anything with the shelby name


I'll just leave this here -
Posted Image

Need to do some searching but I know of at least five other Tigers he has personally signed. I thought his policy was to never sign anything that was not a Shelby?

He also sold Tigers out of his CA dealership in the 60's

Posted Image

To summarize thus far -
Shelby produced the prototype that went to production
Shelby was payed a $5 royalty for every Tiger produced. $35K is no chump change in the mid 60s.
Shelby sold the Tiger in his dealership along with Cobras
Shelby has personally signed several Tigers
Shelby was featured in advertisements for the Tiger
Shelby has a Tiger in his personal collection


Maybe Carroll will cast a vote. ;^)

An interesting Shelby/Tiger debate between Tiger guys in 1999 - http://www.team.net/...3/msg00118.html

Edited by 66TigerMk1A, 26 April 2012 - 05:11 PM.

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#16 OFFLINE   shelbymotorsports

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 06:44 PM

Need to do some searching but I know of at least five other Tigers he has personally signed. I thought his policy was to never sign anything that was not a Shelby?


Nope, no policy like that. And if an autograph is what makes a car a Shelby then the guy with the Camaro at the Bash two years ago has something special ;)

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#17 OFFLINE   rocky

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:33 PM

I dont know why you are trying so hard to make your tiger a shelby as i said i owned a tiger and thats what it was, of course shelby did not sign mine but if that is what makes your tiger a shelby then you have a shelby, but mine was a tiger and there were not many around, more people back in the 1960's knew about the shelby than they did the tiger so i was proud to call mine a tiger not a shelby.

#18 OFFLINE   2010KonaBlueGT

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 04:52 PM

And if an autograph is what makes a car a Shelby then the guy with the Camaro at the Bash two years ago has something special ;)



Or the gawd awful Mustang V-6 that a guy at Shelby LV was so proud of becase Shelby signed it. Me and Steve Mansell were trying our best not to insult the guy but the first thought that came to my mind was, "Big deal. It's not a Shelby so why are you so impressed that Shelby signed it?".

And he made a BIG point out of telling us "And Shelby didn't even charge me for it!".

I always say "To each his own" but this thing was gawd awful ugly looking.

But hey, since Shel signed it, by your logic it's a Shelby!!!

NOOOOTTTTTT!


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CURRENT MODS: FRPP: Whipple 2.9L Polished Superchager w/Crusher Inlet & Cobra Jet dual 65mm Throttle Body - Ceramic Coated Shorty Headers - Ford Blue Cam Covers - Polished Billet COP & Oil filler Cap Covers - FR3 Handling Pack w/Tokico Struts/Shocks & Eibach Swaybars - Jounce Bumpers - 8.8" Low Profile Axle Girdle - 3" Front Brake Cooling Ducts - Vacuum/Boost Gauge~ MGW: Short Throw Shifter - White w/Blue Stripes Shifter Knob - Radiator and Intercooler Degas Bottle Caps - Seat Recliner Lever Covers - Parking Brake Handle Cover - Coat Hanger Hooks~ PST: 1-piece Carbon Fiber Driveshaft~ Revan Racing: C&R Radiator and Intercooler~ ROUSH: 3x Intercooler Degas Bottle - Side Splitters - Extreme Off-road Exhaust - Adjustable Trailing Arms (LCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link (UCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link Bracket - AC Vent Pod Vac/Boost Gauge Mount~ SHELBY: SC Aux. Idler Pulley - Oil Dipstick Handle, MC, PS & WS Washer Reservoir Caps - 8-qt. Oil Pan - Subframe K-member - Tubular Front A-arms - 6S Extreme Front Brakes - KR Style Front Brake Duct Bezels - Anti Bump-stear Tie-rod Ends - Race Style Swaybar Links - Adjustable Caster/Camber Plates - Adjustable Panhard Bar - Panhard Bar/Body Brace - KR Rear Axle Reservoir - Eradispeed Rear Brake Rotors & Caliper Relocation Brackets - Shelby/BMR Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets -18" GT500KR Alcoa Dura-Bright Wheels & Goodyear KR Winged Boot F1 Supercar tires~

PURCHASED AND AWAITING INSTALLATION: Shelby/Baer Extreme Rear Brakes; Shelby/Metco Fuel Rails, Shelby Alcoa 20" Dura-Bright Super Snake style wheels; NMB2 2-Stage WOT Box, Granatelli Motors Tire Fryer Line-lock, Raptor shift light, ZEX N2O kit, Ford Racing Lighted Sill Plates w/Ford Racing logo.

#19 OFFLINE   Torch40

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

I'll just leave this here - Posted Image Need to do some searching but I know of at least five other Tigers he has personally signed. I thought his policy was to never sign anything that was not a Shelby? He also sold Tigers out of his CA dealership in the 60's Posted Image To summarize thus far - Shelby produced the prototype that went to production Shelby was payed a $5 royalty for every Tiger produced. $35K is no chump change in the mid 60s. Shelby sold the Tiger in his dealership along with Cobras Shelby has personally signed several Tigers Shelby was featured in advertisements for the Tiger Shelby has a Tiger in his personal collection Maybe Carroll will cast a vote. ;^) An interesting Shelby/Tiger debate between Tiger guys in 1999 - http://www.team.net/...3/msg00118.html


OK you’re right it’s a Shelby. :shades:
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#20 OFFLINE   Helix

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

This has been extremely informative. As to what my knowledge has served, I'd put my opinion as Shelby had more involvement with the Tiger than the Viper, granted I've never even seen a Tiger up close. I voted hard to determine due to my open slate for this topic ;)
However, I'd have to say its not a Shelby, but I also wouldn't forget his involvement.
As for the v6, a Mustang is a Mustang, and a Shelby Mustang is a Mustang. But, a Mustang is not a Shelby Mustang. Hopefully your not just saying screw v6 owners :cry: but if Carrol Shelby signed my v6 I'd be proud. NO, I would NOT say I have a Shelby Mustang, I'd say I am a Ford Mustang owner who had the honor of having my vehicle signed by Carrol Shelby (granted, for that matter, I would rather he not sign the car but rather something more 'I can keep this in the house' oriented).
Either way, sadly, hearing the term "Shelby Tiger" would just be asking for debates everywhere you go.

rbbbj6.jpgzuscip.jpg

2003 Mustang
1987 Lincoln Mark VII LSC


#21 OFFLINE   66TigerMk1A

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:35 AM

I dont know why you are trying so hard to make your tiger a shelby


I am not, I am just presenting the debate here with all that I have learned over the years. I could go either way with it, it all depends on the beholder of the car. My car has won in a Shelby class in the past and won a lot in special interest ford class too. I have a sign that gives a short explanation of Shelby's involvement in the Tiger I put up at shows and I love the expressions people get when reading it.
Duke
1966 Sunbeam Tiger
B382002037LRXFE
A Cobra is nothing but a rich man's Tiger.

#22 OFFLINE   Helix

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 08:09 PM

That sounds like the best way to approach it; do not go without mentioning the history.

rbbbj6.jpgzuscip.jpg

2003 Mustang
1987 Lincoln Mark VII LSC


#23 OFFLINE   nnadelizi

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:28 PM

A lot of good info on the Tiger. I was the proud owner of #191 260 with black vinal dash. A lot of good memories and a lot of good stories and fun! I belonged to CAT in the LA area and was ready to vintage race it before I had to sell it. To me theTiger was not called a Shelby but part of the Shelby history and DNA. Hey, Shelby was so impressed with the car he picked up his wife,then girlfriend, for a date in the first Tiger!
Nick
Nick Adelizi 2007 Shelby GT/SC California, Peformance White CSM#5221 Shelby GT/SC Package installed at Shelby American in Las Vegas, NV. Completed on Aug. 12, 2013 with Kenne Bell Supercharger, 20 inch Shelby Razor wheels, mirror covers,etc

#24 OFFLINE   cobrakidz

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:08 PM

I am on my 5th Tiger in the last 30 years and I have never considered it a Shelby. I sold one to Carroll Shelby, but that's a diffferent story.
1966 GT350
1965 Tiger

#25 OFFLINE   fordmanpa

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:07 PM

Shelby American was the innovator in the development of the Sunbeam Tiger. Dave Friedman devotes a chapter in his book "Shelby American Racing History" to the concept development of the Sunbeam Tiger street car and race car. According to Friedman, Doane Spencer suggested to Ian Garrard (Rootes Motors) that Rootes use a ford 260 ci Ford engine in the proposed Sunbeam Tiger sports car as Carroll Shelby had in the AC Cobra. Spencer was hoping to land the job of building the first sunbeam tiger but that deal went to Shelby American. Ken Miles (a Shelby employee) was given the task to build the street version of the vehicle in his small workshop (as Shelby American was undergoing growing pains and lacked space for all the projects underway), while Shelby American built the race version. There are some interesting pictures of cars under development and on the race tracks in Friedman's book.

Shelby American built the prototype Sunbeam Tigers.

So are they strictly a British (Rootes Group) automobile in classification? The simple answer is YES. Although the Shelby name was never attached to the cars, they are uniquely associated with Shelby American in ways that no other non- Shelby badged car can lay claim.

#26 OFFLINE   66TigerMk1A

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

Great comments Fordmanpa.

Carroll would be proud -



Recorded Nov 6th, 2011......sure to be one of the final days of KCIR.

Race #2, slow launch, bounced off of rev limiter in 1st, did not short-shift at max HP...........car can easily run 11s. Gotta get the nut behind the wheel to do it. Opponent was a Mustang Cobra, he ran a 13.6.

R/T - .353
60' - 2.070
330 - 5.267
1/8 - 7.957
MPH - 91.27
1000 - 10.270
1/4 - 12.211
MPH - 116.09

Edited by 66TigerMk1A, 30 May 2012 - 05:01 AM.

Duke
1966 Sunbeam Tiger
B382002037LRXFE
A Cobra is nothing but a rich man's Tiger.

#27 OFFLINE   fordmanpa

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 06:55 PM

Great run!




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