63 replies to this topic

[rdrawkit]

Back in June of 2011 I asked our mechanic  (race shop) to order me a 1 piece D/S...His supplier said there were too many problems with them and recommended NOT  to try one untill HE was satisfied by his  SUPPLIER that all concerns were ADDRESSED...Last August  he still was NOT satisfied with the answers he got back and told Nick to tell me to hold off untill  he was sure he wasn't caught in the middle of supplier and buyer...After reading many threads including this one ..I am still LEARY of this upgrade...I will contact REVAN RACING and try and get some postive feedbak..NO one here wants to be the middle man cause of the problems....

[2010KonaBlueGT]

rdrawkit, on 05 December 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Back in June of 2011 I asked our mechanic  (race shop) to order me a 1 piece D/S...His supplier said there were too many problems with them and recommended NOT  to try one untill HE was satisfied by his  SUPPLIER that all concerns were ADDRESSED...Last August  he still was NOT satisfied with the answers he got back and told Nick to tell me to hold off untill  he was sure he wasn't caught in the middle of supplier and buyer...After reading many threads including this one ..I am still LEARY of this upgrade...I will contact REVAN RACING and try and get some postive feedbak..NO one here wants to be the middle man cause of the problems....

I had NOTHING BUT positive feed-back for PST...Before mine failed.

And again, under normal street driving conditions with OEM tires. Not on slicks, on a sticky race launch pad, but on a public street (asphalt) on OEM Goodyear F-1 tires. On a 1-2 "short shift" (early in the RPM range).


Phill

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Shipwright, on 05 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

This exact same situation happened to me as well. The bond between the front billet yoke and carbon fibre tube let go (the car was running stock power at that time), causing a temporary squealing sound when the clutch was engaged (pedal out). However, PST' response was much better to my concerns than was yours, all it took was an e-mail describing my dilemma and a short video of me spinning, by hand, the yoke inside the CF tube. Within 20 minutes of sending the e-mail I got a response saying "We have improved our bonding technology since that shaft was made" and "please return the shaft for repairs", I paid for the shipping to PST, they covered the repairs and shipping back to me. I've had no problems since, eventhough I'm currently making 703 rwhp.

I just got a interesting call from PST. I think I spoke with Mark.

He told me they've never had a failure like this.

I told him about your (Denis) post on TS and he got tongue tied...Uhh, errr, welll, ummm, ahhh, I uhhh, ummm.....

I'm getting a new driveshaft made as I write (according to him).



Thanks for your information,
Phill

[Shipwright]

2010KonaBlueGT, on 06 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

I just got a interesting call from PST. I think I spoke with Mark.

He told me they've never had a failure like this.

I told him about your (Denis) post on TS and he got tongue tied...Uhh, errr, welll, ummm, ahhh, I uhhh, ummm.....

I'm getting a new driveshaft made as I write (according to him).



Thanks for your information,
Phill

If it's Mark Veldhuis it's the same person that I dealt with. If you pm me your home e-mail address I'll forward you my the e-mail to PST with video and his response for your viewing pleasure or records. Ya gotta love the internet!!

Edited by Shipwright, 06 December 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[Shipwright]

2010KonaBlueGT, on 06 December 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

I had NOTHING BUT positive feed-back for PST...Before mine failed.

And again, under normal street driving conditions with OEM tires. Not on slicks, on a sticky race launch pad, but on a public street (asphalt) on OEM Goodyear F-1 tires. On a 1-2 "short shift" (early in the RPM range).


Phill

Same with me. I did my research, it seemed that getting a vibration free one piece DS was a crap shoot at best because of the use of a slip yoke at the rear. PST was ont only one at that time that use a OEM type CV joint which eliminated the vibration, and there was nary a complaint on the web about any failures.

Edited by Shipwright, 06 December 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Shipwright, on 06 December 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Same with me. I did my research, it seemed that getting a vibration free one piece DS was a crap shoot at best because of the use of a slip yoke at the rear. PST was ont only one at that time that use a OEM type CV joint which eliminated the vibration, and there was nary a complaint on the web about any failures.

Yep, same here.

So far your experience and my experience seem to have run parallel lives. Month/date/situation/etc..

When Mark was "hmmm-ing" and "errr-ing" I said "I think his name is Denis" and that's when he moved on to why they don't use a slip-yoke.

I DO like the fact that there's a CV joint on one end over the other 1-pc items available. I looked at the one Shelby has in there musuem store and that's the fist thing I noticed, a u-joint on both ends with a slip-yoke/bellows to give them the ability to expand/contract under rear vehicle load.

I hope this one holds up better than the first one. He told me the same thing about changing bonding (from 3-M to ???) agents.

I think they need a deeper "inner tube" that goes inside of the CF tube, like the rear joint has to give it more surface area to bond to. Use a magnet on the rear section to see how far up the steel innner tube on the rear CV goes into the CF shaft (I did)!


Phill

[Shipwright]

2010KonaBlueGT, on 06 December 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Yep, same here.

So far your experience and my experience seem to have run parallel lives. Month/date/situation/etc..

When Mark was "hmmm-ing" and "errr-ing" I said "I think his name is Denis" and that's when he moved on to why they don't use a slip-yoke.

I DO like the fact that there's a CV joint on one end over the other 1-pc items available. I looked at the one Shelby has in there musuem store and that's the fist thing I noticed, a u-joint on both ends with a slip-yoke/bellows to give them the ability to expand/contract under rear vehicle load.

I hope this one holds up better than the first one. He told me the same thing about changing bonding (from 3-M to ???) agents.

I think they need a deeper "inner tube" that goes inside of the CF tube, like the rear joint has to give it more surface area to bond to. Use a magnet on the rear section to see how far up the steel innner tube on the rear CV goes into the CF shaft (I did)!


Phill

You may be ok. As I recently posted I drove the car with 736 crank HP (several dyno pulls included) from September to October then 808 crank HP (a few more dyno pulls) from October till I stored the car last weekend with no problems. Next year will be the determining factor, we'll see how it holds up after a year of high hp. I'm not sure why Shelby would use slip yokes as that seemed to be the problem with other aftermarket shafts that vibrate. Even the new OEM CF DS that the OP (sorry Hooper T for highjacking your thread) posted pictures of show CV joints at both ends.

Edited by Shipwright, 07 December 2012 - 03:13 AM.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Shipwright, on 06 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Even the new OEM CF DS that the OP (sorry Hooper T for highjacking your thread) posted pictures of show CV joints at both ends.

YEP! I noticed. And which is why I hope FRPP can get something together so the new DS can be retrofitted to earlier model years.


Phill

[Tob]

Word is that FRPP won't be doing a kit.

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Tob, on 08 December 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Word is that FRPP won't be doing a kit.

Okay.

Has anyone figured out how to retrofit the '13 DS, tail shaft, housing, flange, etc. to a '12- yet?


Phill

[Tob]

It has been done, yes.

I'm working on it as well.

http://www.svtperfor...7-12-gt500.html

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Tob, on 08 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

It has been done, yes.
I'm working on it as well.
http://www.svtperfor...7-12-gt500.html

VERY informative thread.

And I think I answered my own question/concern about the weight difference between my PST CF DS and the '13 1-pc CF CS, along with the cause of my failure.

I watched the vids you posted links to after I commented. They method they use for the CV joint union is *significantly* different from each other with FoMoCo not even using a bonding agent (press fit vs. bonded).


Thanks,
Phill

[Tob]

Phill, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've done my best to collect as much relevant data as I can. I'm driven by the fact that I knew that this could be done and motivated because my 725hp WhippleMonster needs it.

At this point, anyone with the money ought to be able to spend some time with their local machinist and whip something up for themselves. And I agree, the dry, press fit is unique. The factory really did their homework here.

[rdrawkit]

TOB   GREAT INFO....THXS

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Tob, on 08 December 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

And I agree, the dry, press fit is unique. The factory really did their homework here.

And at this point, tells me I *will* have another failure of my PST at some point in time.

Glue won't last forever......


Phill

[Tob]

Phill, I was very close to pulling the trigger on either the DSS or the PST at about the same time you did. Both are reputable companies that I'm sure will keep improving their product line with new innovations as time passes.

I'm sure there is a limit to the Ford CF shaft as well but I have yet to hear reliable commentary on it. I've seen some destructive testing that the aftermarket shaft companies have done and would love to see them test an OEM CF shaft. As I mentioned elsewhere, unless NEAPCO or Ford has a patent on the splined, dry fit ends, I don't understand why the aftermarket isn't reverse engineering here..

[2010KonaBlueGT]

Tob, on 10 December 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

As I mentioned elsewhere, unless NEAPCO or Ford has a patent on the splined, dry fit ends, I don't understand why the aftermarket isn't reverse engineering here..

I agree 1000%.

When talking with Mark he said they went through approx. 25 shaft failures (at speed) when engineering the CV joint vs. slip yoke/u-joint application.

They (PST) claim their shafts are tested for torque (I can't remember the number but I believe it was over 1000 lb.') but "age" can't be tested nor can heat cycles. With the OEM H-pipe running right along side of the DS, I'm assuming the heat cycles may play a big part in the failure of the bonding agent too. And then we see single digit temps here in CO so it goes from 0d to 300d on extremes.

I wonder if anyone at PST has seen the vid/pics you have of the splined/pressed FoMoCo CF shaft???


Thanks for your work/info,
Phill

[Tob]

Watch the following video  a few times Phill. I don't know what method they used to fasten the steel end to the CF tube but you'll see how strong it is. Pay attention to the right end of the tube as it starts to buckle  just before the test apparatus fails...






DSS high speed testing...

Edited by Tob, 21 December 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[Tob]

Here's another where that first shaft was continuously cycled via twisting to a specific torque value.

[Snoopy49]

Tob
None of the videos work, all I get is a place card with a small blue circle with a cross bar. I am trying to view these on a Windows computer.