137 replies to this topic

[Helix]

I can't agree with this enough. I am 19, more interested in chemistry than engineering, aiming for veterinary degree not a mechanic degree, and I cannot stand foreign garbage. Sure, I could throw Toyota in here and begin a 10 million point list why I hate Toyota more than anything in life for the lies they push, the crap they get away with within import laws, and their horribly designed prius, which screams the Japanese vision: cutting the corner.
The American people have been poisoned with the thought of government hate, the idea that domestic workers have no passion or mentality such as workers from other countries.

Plain and simple, from the average guy or girl in a high school Japanese class watching anime and devoting their life to Japan, to the classic non-car-caring person who understands that anything from Germany or Italy is for sophisticated people who are above domestic products. America has become this mindless persons' who believe that the rest of the world is far ahead of us in technology and engineering. Other countries have many other takes on technology, which leads to an undetermined winner in the battle for 'most evolved technology'. However, it is the engineering outside of our country that does not hold up to ours; no, it has not always been that way. But, there is no reason to believe foreign cars are better, just because of social media. This is the kind of manipulation that causes companies like GM and Chrysler to fail, having been betrayed by their own people for junk Honda's and garbage Kia's. This is why there is a bad picture painted of the American automaker, because people fight over the quality of it's own people and the misuse of unions.

So how does this come back to the Mustang? Simple. Ford has no choice but to appeal to the rest of the world, since to the typical American who rejects modern engineering and chemistry, whatever other countries like they will follow. Thus, the Mustang is all over the place right now, because to most people "the good days of muscle are gone, and America is not as smart as Europeans or Asians".

Dead on.....now I feel a bit better.

Edit: Though I should point out that I am not saying foreign cars cannot be impressive or appealing; I'm stating that there is no reason that they should be considered better than our products at current time; hopefully, it will stay that way. I'm sure it will go around a few times, but not today.

Edited by Helix, 03 September 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[39Mustang]

dh777, on 03 September 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Interesting article from another perspective

http://www.stangtv.c...o-generation-y/

Whomever wrote that article I'd personally like to slap him upside his head! If I wanted a freaking rice rocket with some turbo charged 4 or 6 banger I would have bought one!

[MY500SS]

Back in Jr. High, there was a Mustang Cobra II in the school parking lot.  Always thought the teacher was cool because of that little car.

Could we see a return ?

[svt13]

EL SHELBY, on 31 August 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

It's very unlikely that the V8 or performance for that matter will be forgotten in '15. However, from the speculation Ford may have kill the Mustang's appearance for the US Market, possibly even the Euro market. It sounds as if Ford is forgetting about the one thing that would make the Mustang desirable in all markets, and that is 'American Styling'. Ford can make the Mustang smaller and use a common platform but if it's appearance (and performance) do not scream 'Mustang' then Ford will have failed. Ford tested the waters with the Probe, which wasn't a bad car, but it clearly wasn't a Mustang.

I really don't think they are going to change it so radically. I bet you this is what happens. The tail lights DON'T CHANGE. The front end will change. New headlights fogs grills etc. The hood will change. The rear diffuser. bumper, spoiler will change. Maybe the mirrors will change and thats it. They may do some stuff on the inside to shed 100 pounds too. But I doubt the body panels will accomplish that it will probably be due to other pieces like on the 13 carbon fiber drive shaft.

[svt13]

Helix, on 03 September 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

I can't agree with this enough. I am 19, more interested in chemistry than engineering, aiming for veterinary degree not a mechanic degree, and I cannot stand foreign garbage. Sure, I could throw Toyota in here and begin a 10 million point list why I hate Toyota more than anything in life for the lies they push, the crap they get away with within import laws, and their horribly designed prius, which screams the Japanese vision: cutting the corner.
The American people have been poisoned with the thought of government hate, the idea that domestic workers have no passion or mentality such as workers from other countries.

Plain and simple, from the average guy or girl in a high school Japanese class watching anime and devoting their life to Japan, to the classic non-car-caring person who understands that anything from Germany or Italy is for sophisticated people who are above domestic products. America has become this mindless persons' who believe that the rest of the world is far ahead of us in technology and engineering. Other countries have many other takes on technology, which leads to an undetermined winner in the battle for 'most evolved technology'. However, it is the engineering outside of our country that does not hold up to ours; no, it has not always been that way. But, there is no reason to believe foreign cars are better, just because of social media. This is the kind of manipulation that causes companies like GM and Chrysler to fail, having been betrayed by their own people for junk Honda's and garbage Kia's. This is why there is a bad picture painted of the American automaker, because people fight over the quality of it's own people and the misuse of unions.

So how does this come back to the Mustang? Simple. Ford has no choice but to appeal to the rest of the world, since to the typical American who rejects modern engineering and chemistry, whatever other countries like they will follow. Thus, the Mustang is all over the place right now, because to most people "the good days of muscle are gone, and America is not as smart as Europeans or Asians".

Dead on.....now I feel a bit better.

Edit: Though I should point out that I am not saying foreign cars cannot be impressive or appealing; I'm stating that there is no reason that they should be considered better than our products at current time; hopefully, it will stay that way. I'm sure it will go around a few times, but not today.

I think the only car you could say we as America did better than foreign cars costing twice as much inside and out is the new viper. Ford needs to make a car to compete with the viper for the same price. That is the only one. As amazing tech and performance on the outside of the car and has ferrari/bentley interior on the inside with the latest tech for nav and all other gismos you could imagine. And its only around 120k I believe?

Why anyone would buy a zr1 or porsche over that is beyond me.

Edited by svt13, 04 September 2012 - 06:53 AM.

[svtkeith]

svt13, on 04 September 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think the only car you could say we as America did better than foreign cars costing twice as much inside and out is the new viper. Ford needs to make a car to compete with the viper for the same price. That is the only one. As amazing tech and performance on the outside of the car and has ferrari/bentley interior on the inside with the latest tech for nav and all other gismos you could imagine. And its only around 120k I believe?

Why anyone would buy a zr1 or porsche over that is beyond me.

Ever drive a ZR1 ?...bet not..It's an American super car the can spank most of what  European and Jap got to offer..and as far as the new Viper

nice car but the hp and weight are almost identical to the ZR1 so thats going to be a drivers race...

[svt13]

svtkeith, on 04 September 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Ever drive a ZR1 ?...bet not..It's an American super car the can spank most of what  European and Jap got to offer..and as far as the new Viper

nice car but the hp and weight are almost identical to the ZR1 so thats going to be a drivers race...

ZR1 is just performance no luxury. The interior is dog shit and there is zero tech in it. Besides the MR and PTM. Pshhh. The new viper has every damn electronic tech available today in it and has the same interior as ferrari and bentley all for cheaper than a zr1. Plus the viper has a 49/50 weight distribution ideal for the road course. Idk what the zr1 is but I doubt its that.

Always American supercars have been about compromise while European ones just build amazing cars. Now finally America has its first car that doesn't skimp out on the details.

[Helix]

That is probably what it comes down to; not that I have driven the ZR1, or for that matter will drive a Viper, but the Viper does have the tech advantages. However, the Viper is also naturally aspirated. It will be fun to see, but for now those two are on top.
As for super cars, besides the obvious Ford gt that imprinted a legendary lore, SSC, Saleen, and Hennessey American for starters.
Even our favorites! The Cobra and later the Series 1. The Shelby series 1 is incredible, and that is before mods.

Edit: might as well get overzealous while I'm on a role. GT350 and GT500 super snake. I don't see a reason not to toss those in.

Edited by Helix, 04 September 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[svtkeith]

svt13, on 04 September 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

ZR1 is just performance no luxury. The interior is dog shit and there is zero tech in it. Besides the MR and PTM. Pshhh. The new viper has every damn electronic tech available today in it and has the same interior as ferrari and bentley all for cheaper than a zr1. Plus the viper has a 49/50 weight distribution ideal for the road course. Idk what the zr1 is but I doubt its that.

Always American supercars have been about compromise while European ones just build amazing cars. Now finally America has its first car that doesn't skimp out on the details.

Here you go showing your stupidity about cars again...the ZR1 is not meant to be a Luxury car to start off with but if you ever drove one or done a bit

of research you would see that you can put the car in touring mode and it rides as smooth as butter put it in full racing mode and take it to the track

NO TEK??..the 2010 and up has 5 diff modes to fit the ability of the driver...carbon fiber rotors the same system thats on the Enzo Ferrari..the whole

body is made of carbon fiber..a titanium exhust system..go google to see what it does on a track with your famous Jap GT-R and the Porsche GT II

and check and see what Motor Trend done with it in the 1/4 mile when it came out in 09....and you say the int sux..ain't you the one thats going out

and spending $4000 on an int for your GT500 ?..I'm starting to believe what some others are saying on here about your BS posting...the ZR1 is one

of the fastest production  cars ever made on road course or drag strip and it's made in AMERICA but your to stupid to realize that...like I said go do

some research and see how much AMERICAN tek there is in that car.

[svt13]

svtkeith, on 05 September 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Here you go showing your stupidity about cars again...the ZR1 is not meant to be a Luxury car to start off with but if you ever drove one or done a bit

of research you would see that you can put the car in touring mode and it rides as smooth as butter put it in full racing mode and take it to the track

NO TEK??..the 2010 and up has 5 diff modes to fit the ability of the driver...carbon fiber rotors the same system thats on the Enzo Ferrari..the whole

body is made of carbon fiber..a titanium exhust system..go google to see what it does on a track with your famous Jap GT-R and the Porsche GT II

and check and see what Motor Trend done with it in the 1/4 mile when it came out in 09....and you say the int sux..ain't you the one thats going out

and spending $4000 on an int for your GT500 ?..I'm starting to believe what some others are saying on here about your BS posting...the ZR1 is one

of the fastest production  cars ever made on road course or drag strip and it's made in AMERICA but your to stupid to realize that...like I said go do

some research and see how much AMERICAN tek there is in that car.

I have done research and I have driven one. And I'd put it the other way around saying the ferrari enzo has the system that is in the ZR1. Remember GM sold the system to ferrari not the other way around. And the whole ZR1 is not carbon fiber. Just the roof, hood, front splitter, pillars, side skirts extensions, and spoiler. The doors, bumpers, trunk, all of that is made from plastic like the rest of the corvettes.

I wouldn't say the viper was designed to be a luxury cruiser either but the makers still put some bentley quality stuff in there. 2nd the zr1 does NOT have a titanium exhaust. If you know ANYTHING about titanium exhausts you would notice on cars that have them the tips are blue from the titanium oxidizing from the heat. The only stock car I have seen with a titanium exhaust from the factory are the Paganis. Not a lowly zr1 (when compared to a Hyuara or Zonda)

And why would you lump carbon fiber rotors in with technology? I don't understand that one.

And as far as my interior I was debating doing that because I wanted a BETTER interior but still wouldn't dare go far enough to call it luxury. This isn't italian leather I am replacing it with. Though I decided that money could be better off elsewhere.

I never said the zr1 is a bad car. I know full well what motortrend has done with it. I know what it does on the track. I simply said that it is a compromise though which it is.

In summary the ZR1's tech is limited to MR,PTM, and a crap nav. While the viper has state of the art everything else. That is REAL American tech. You do know the viper has 4 modes compared to the ZR1s 5 modes? But there are many configurations with the dynamic traction control and torque vectoring controls on the viper the ZR1 does not have.

Lets not forget that 4 wheel completely independent of each other traction and stability control system the ZR1 does not have.

So before you tell me I'm posting bullshit YOU should get your facts straight about the car you are talking about.

It still stands the ZR1 is a great car but one built on compromises and other models. This has been how America does it even with the FGT though the FT has a way better interior than a ZR1. Truly great cars are built on their own from one vision, and don't have watered down versions of it.

Edited by svt13, 05 September 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[Helix]

Sadly, the one thing your neglecting is what Keith is explaining. When it comes to the American engineering, this is where the innovation comes in. Technology can be awesome, but remember that, for instance, there's very little performance difference from an Alienware laptop and an Asus laptop. Basically, our technology in cars is not light years ahead of anyone, maybe it looks different or functions different, but that isn't something America has up on the competition. You choose what kind of tech mods you want, and if a ZR1 doesn't have it, and a Viper does, then the choice is clear to you.

There's just no reason to hold a car's standards by how much better the technology is when everyone is sticking the same stuff in really. Just matters what the car is for, and within the engineering aspect of that is why the ZR1 and the Viper are so amazing.

[svt13]

Helix, on 05 September 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Sadly, the one thing your neglecting is what Keith is explaining. When it comes to the American engineering, this is where the innovation comes in. Technology can be awesome, but remember that, for instance, there's very little performance difference from an Alienware laptop and an Asus laptop. Basically, our technology in cars is not light years ahead of anyone, maybe it looks different or functions different, but that isn't something America has up on the competition. You choose what kind of tech mods you want, and if a ZR1 doesn't have it, and a Viper does, then the choice is clear to you.

There's just no reason to hold a car's standards by how much better the technology is when everyone is sticking the same stuff in really. Just matters what the car is for, and within the engineering aspect of that is why the ZR1 and the Viper are so amazing.

Yes I understand that and agree with you. But my original point with all of this and then we should get back on track to mustangs is that mostly American cars have been known for compromising me. Thats why I used the ZR1 and viper as examples. Yes the viper tech is nothing new and its not worlds ahead of anything else out there. But its the first american car built without compromising on major things like interior quality. Or sometimes its the opposite like the S5 audi where the interior is great but it has a 350hp engine. Though thats not an American example but whatever.

Both the zr1 and viper are awesome cars if I could afford them I'd have either one. My argument was soley looking at it objectively in terms of what each offers for dollar value. The zr1 is an amazing bang for buck because to get that power you need to pay 200k anywhere else. But then the interior is lacking and some comforts are lacking. Thats why I am saying the viper is an even better bang for buck because its good everywhere and even cheaper than a ZR1. Though lets not forget with the c7 coming out soon I see that changing very quickly. I'm sure the new corvette will be on the same level.

[svtkeith]

Helix, on 05 September 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Sadly, the one thing your neglecting is what Keith is explaining. When it comes to the American engineering, this is where the innovation comes in. Technology can be awesome, but remember that, for instance, there's very little performance difference from an Alienware laptop and an Asus laptop. Basically, our technology in cars is not light years ahead of anyone, maybe it looks different or functions different, but that isn't something America has up on the competition. You choose what kind of tech mods you want, and if a ZR1 doesn't have it, and a Viper does, then the choice is clear to you.

There's just no reason to hold a car's standards by how much better the technology is when everyone is sticking the same stuff in really. Just matters what the car is for, and within the engineering aspect of that is why the ZR1 and the Viper are so amazing.

Don't even try to talk sense in this morons head...I've owned and drove more cars than he will ever dream of but in his warped head he knows all

don't forget this is the same guy that bad mouthed the 013 GT500 and went and bought one...oh then had to come on here and ask people how to shift

it!!..but he knows what all cars can do which ones are cruisers and performance cars...an American car has been beating most of the ultra expensive

Euro and Jap cars for the last 5 years and there's no dought in my mind so will the new Viper but for this yoyo to say it's a better cruiser more tech than the

ZR1 before it even hit the streets to the public..I need not say more..as a matter of fact the 013 GT500 that he so knocks will beat lots of those ultra expensive

cars also in the Texas mile.

[WJinLV]

svtkeith, on 05 September 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Don't even try to talk sense in this morons head...I've owned and drove more cars than he will ever dream of but in his warped head he knows all

don't forget this is the same guy that bad mouthed the 013 GT500 and went and bought one...oh then had to come on here and ask people how to shift

it!!..but he knows what all cars can do which ones are cruisers and performance cars...an American car has been beating most of the ultra expensive

Euro and Jap cars for the last 5 years and there's no dought in my mind so will the new Viper but for this yoyo to say it's a better cruiser more tech than the

ZR1 before it even hit the streets to the public..I need not say more..as a matter of fact the 013 GT500 that he so knocks will beat lots of those ultra expensive

cars also in the Texas mile.

+1 Keith.  I dont think I had any smarts either at 19 yrs old.

[svt13]

WJinLV, on 05 September 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

+1 Keith.  I dont think I had any smarts either at 19 yrs old.

I wish I was 19 and had this car number 1

[svt13]

svtkeith, on 05 September 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Don't even try to talk sense in this morons head...I've owned and drove more cars than he will ever dream of but in his warped head he knows all

don't forget this is the same guy that bad mouthed the 013 GT500 and went and bought one...oh then had to come on here and ask people how to shift

it!!..but he knows what all cars can do which ones are cruisers and performance cars...an American car has been beating most of the ultra expensive

Euro and Jap cars for the last 5 years and there's no dought in my mind so will the new Viper but for this yoyo to say it's a better cruiser more tech than the

ZR1 before it even hit the streets to the public..I need not say more..as a matter of fact the 013 GT500 that he so knocks will beat lots of those ultra expensive

cars also in the Texas mile.

OK well I tried to get this back on topic but I can't stay quiet with this bs your saying.

I find it EXTREMELY ironic you are calling me a moron or stupid or ANYTHING, and then touting how you know way more about all these american cars because you're older than me. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ZR1 HAS ON IT. Titanium exhaust? Full body carbon fiber? Please go look on chevy and read the specs of the car.

As far as knowing about the viper before it hits the streets http://www.drivesrt.com/srt-viper/ HERE YA GO!!!!!! All the info you could want on it. Lots of detail too. The internet is a wonderful tool.

Sorry I had to ask about shifting a high hp car its my first manual, I grew up in the 21st century where manuals comprise maybe 5% of cars on the road now. I wasn't born in the 60s. Yea I said crap about the gt500 because I'm not a FANBOY. Its a great car and is the best bang for buck that I could afford. Doesn't mean there are things that could be made easily better by Ford. Believe me if I made more I wouldn't be driving it.

And if you want to talk about just an American car beating out Euro and Jap cars, well I could easily slap a twin turbo on a GT and beat pretty much everything. Does that make it better? NO.

I don't know where you think I am being a know it all. Are you blind? Its so simple, look at a viper interior, and then look at a ZR1 interior. Can you not see the difference? Look at a ZR1 spec sheet and look at a viper spec sheet. Can you not see the similiarties in 0-60 and 1/4 mile? Look at nurburgring ring times for the older versions of both. Pretty close. It's not being a know it all, its just LOOKING and SEEING and using your god damn brain to put 2 AND 2 together.

When you resort to personal attacks its because you can't back up what your saying with facts. I am literally just spewing facts a 5 minute google search can come up with. I suggest you try and do the same. And now I am done with this debate its time to move on.

[svtkeith]

svt13, on 05 September 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

OK well I tried to get this back on topic but I can't stay quiet with this bs your saying.

I find it EXTREMELY ironic you are calling me a moron or stupid or ANYTHING, and then touting how you know way more about all these american cars because you're older than me. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ZR1 HAS ON IT. Titanium exhaust? Full body carbon fiber? Please go look on chevy and read the specs of the car.

As far as knowing about the viper before it hits the streets http://www.drivesrt.com/srt-viper/ HERE YA GO!!!!!! All the info you could want on it. Lots of detail too. The internet is a wonderful tool.

Sorry I had to ask about shifting a high hp car its my first manual, I grew up in the 21st century where manuals comprise maybe 5% of cars on the road now. I wasn't born in the 60s. Yea I said crap about the gt500 because I'm not a FANBOY. Its a great car and is the best bang for buck that I could afford. Doesn't mean there are things that could be made easily better by Ford. Believe me if I made more I wouldn't be driving it.

And if you want to talk about just an American car beating out Euro and Jap cars, well I could easily slap a twin turbo on a GT and beat pretty much everything. Does that make it better? NO.

I don't know where you think I am being a know it all. Are you blind? Its so simple, look at a viper interior, and then look at a ZR1 interior. Can you not see the difference? Look at a ZR1 spec sheet and look at a viper spec sheet. Can you not see the similiarties in 0-60 and 1/4 mile? Look at nurburgring ring times for the older versions of both. Pretty close. It's not being a know it all, its just LOOKING and SEEING and using your god damn brain to put 2 AND 2 together.

When you resort to personal attacks its because you can't back up what your saying with facts. I am literally just spewing facts a 5 minute google search can come up with. I suggest you try and do the same. And now I am done with this debate its time to move on.

LOL...your one piece of work...do you really believe everything you google ?...remember BS in BS out and as far as spec sheets go they mean

dick all...it's good ole experience and hands on with cars that count not spec sheets...but thats what a know it all young punk like you goes by..

enough said about this subject..go read your spec sheets and I'll go drive the real thing..oh and go enjoy the beautiful American car you own

now and come back and tell us true events that you experienced with it and not something you googled.

Edited by svtkeith, 05 September 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[NMAv]

Can you both please drop it and get back to the topic at hand.  I realy don't care who is right, who knows more etc.  You both are looking foolish for continuing the conversation.

[WJinLV]

svt13, on 05 September 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

I wish I was 19 and had this car number 1

Me too. A 76 Toyota Corolla with rusted through doors panels was my first set of wheels. Bought it for $1500 which I save working all summer as a busboy at Denny's.

[svtkeith]

NMAv, on 05 September 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Can you both please drop it and get back to the topic at hand.  I realy don't care who is right, who knows more etc.  You both are looking foolish for continuing the conversation.

It is thats why I said enough said about this subject...