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8.5 Qtr capacity, but 7.5 Qtr for oil change?


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#1 OFFLINE   2013Shelby

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:17 PM

Question:

Have 2013 w/ no track pack. Just oil to water standard cooler.

Drained oil, changed filter, then added 8.5 quarts of oil as indicated in manual. Did not drain oil from cooler - just removed drain plug on pan.

Oil appears a quart high now?

Is there another place that you are supposed to drain the oil from the cooler? Or does a quart of old oil stay in the system between changes?

Likely did something dumb. What did I miss?

Thanks

#2 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:45 PM

2013 FORD SHELBY GT500 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Oil capacity 8.5 quarts base, 9.5 quarts Track Pack, 5W-50 full synthetic

Edited by Snoopy49, 03 September 2012 - 07:14 PM.

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#3 OFFLINE   2013Shelby

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:56 PM

Just rechecked manual - indicates 8.5 quarts for both w/ or w/o Track Pack. I have also seen some materials stating capacity at 9.5 quarts w/ track pack. I think there is some confusion in the specifications.

#4 OFFLINE   Iceman5000

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:28 AM

I changed mine. No Track Pack. Exactly 8.5 Qts was perfect.

#5 OFFLINE   Squirrel 007

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:30 AM

Yes, I read that with track pack it is supposed to be 9.5 quarts. The GT500 suplement for the owners manual I downloaded to read while I await delivery says 8.5 quarts with or without track pack. Makes no sense. My car is supposed to be built week of October 1. I won't see it for 1-1/2 years. It will just sit in my garage. The dealer is delivering it to my house. I also, like another member here, am working in Afghanistan as a government contractor. I do not go home for R&R (Thailand calls to me) and I will have to wait till I go back to the USA in 2014. So my car will just sit until that time keeping my 2002 Saleen Extreme and 2003 James Bond T-Bird company. I sure do miss driving those cars. Only excitement around here is dodging rockets and AK-47 fire. I was in a shipping connex that they started shooting all up and let me tell you when those bullets start hitting you ask yourself what the heck am I here for when I could be home having fun. At least I have some nice cars to dream about to make things better. Only 18 more months.......
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#6 OFFLINE   440sprint

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

I solved this with SVT recently. The track pack's oil cooler & lines hold & keeps 1 used qt that does not drain when draining the pan, so an oil refill takes 8.5 qts with or w/o the track pack.

No problem w/o the track pack, but 10%+ used oil stays in track pack equipped GT500's. I wish there was some way to change all 9.5 qts w/TP!

#7 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:19 PM

Bump

Edited by Snoopy49, 04 September 2012 - 02:01 PM.

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#8 OFFLINE   2013Shelby

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

Thank you for the inputs. I also checked the oil this morning with the engine completely cold....right on the mark.

Possible explanation - After the oil change, I checked for leaks, took it for a drive, then checked oil after a few minutes when the engine was hot....that is when I had the oil at the "overfill marks" on the dip stick. This morning, the oil was right at the upper hole.

Believe this is just the oil expansion causing the issue false reading.

*********

Density Cold / Density Hot = Volume Hot / Volume Cold..., so for the oil from 20 deg. C to 100 deg. C the ration of the cold / hot densities is ~1.06.

Conclusion: for 8.5 Quarts of oil you could expect up to a 1/2 quart expansion.

********

Never had a car before with enough oil that this could really be observed. B)

#9 OFFLINE   440sprint

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:04 PM

6% expansion is way more that I would have estimated. With the track pack's 9.5 qts, that is nearly 6/10 qt added volume due to expansion when changing the oil temp from 20*C to 100*C!

This must be one reason never to overfill when changing or adding engine oil.

Does anyone have any info on what the range of temps that the engine oil experiences under different driving conditions & how much lower these temps are with the track pack?

#10 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:54 PM

Bumping this... Just started to do my oil change tonight. Never had a supercharged car before, so not sure if this creates an additional place you have to drain oil besides the pan?

I'm stumped as to why the plastic panel under the front of the car says "Remove for Oil Service"? I assumed that's where I'd find the filter, but no, it's further back. Can't find anything that looks like a drain plug under there.

Am I missing something, or is the only place I drain oil during an oil change at the pan?
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#11 OFFLINE   Norton

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:51 PM

You're not missing anything, Husky44. I did my first oil change a couple of weeks ago. I found only one drain plug, on the oil pan. I let the (hot) oil drain as "completely" as possible while replacing the filter. Refilling took exactly 8.5qts. As 440sprint reported above the Track Pack's extra quart remained "trapped" in the cooler & lines. I got NO overfill indication, but didn't check the level until I'd run the engine a few minutes, permitting (about a quart of) oil to make its way into the new filter. FWIW, I've yet to observe volumetric "expansion" of the oil in any of my vehicles, including the Shelby, regardless of engine temp.

This is only my second supercharged vehicle, but if it's anything like the other one, there IS supercharger oil to be changed, but it is totally separate from the engine oil. I haven't looked for it on the Shelby yet but, on my other vehicle, there's a plug on the nose drive through which the oil is extracted and replaced. Change interval for that vehicle's supercharger oil, depending on who you believe, varies between 30K and 100K miles. (Nothing like clear guidance...)

Edited by Norton, 08 December 2012 - 09:59 PM.

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#12 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

Is it possible to fill the oil filter before installation?

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#13 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

Is it possible to fill the oil filter before installation?


Why would you want to do that?
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#14 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

Why wait for the engine to fill it?

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#15 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

Is it possible to fill the oil filter before installation?

Not really. You can put some oil in, but you're not "filling" it. You're not hurting anything by putting the 8.5 quarts into the crankcase. The filter will fill rather quickly, and you're not going to lose any oil flow for the engine.
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#16 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:43 PM

Thanks for the confirmation, Norton! So I wonder why they stamped that into the plastic?
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#17 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:59 PM

Not really. You can put some oil in, but you're not "filling" it. You're not hurting anything by putting the 8.5 quarts into the crankcase. The filter will fill rather quickly, and you're not going to lose any oil flow for the engine.


If the engine has to fill the oil filter before the engine sees any oil, wouldn't it be better to prevent this from happening by prefilling the filter? I would rather not take a chance.

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#18 OFFLINE   Norton

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:00 AM

Thanks for the confirmation, Norton! So I wonder why they stamped that into the plastic?

You're welcome!

I admit I didn't pay any attention to "Remove for Oil Service" verbiage when I was under the car, or I'd have probably suffered the same confusion you did. According to this thread in the SVT Performance forums, the plastic panel is shared among multiple Mustang variants and the 5.0 engine requires removal to access the oil filter.

Edited by Norton, 09 December 2012 - 12:01 AM.

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#19 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

Thanks for the confirmation, Norton! So I wonder why they stamped that into the plastic?


Is the filter located in a different position on an SVT TP equipped car?

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#20 OFFLINE   Norton

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:04 AM

Is the filter located in a different position on an SVT TP equipped car?


No.

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FSS_0730_zps9907ee55.jpg

Originally ordered from Phil Long Ford Chapel Hills (CO) on 18 Jun, my order dropped from "#1 of 3" to "#3 of 2" on 19 Sep
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#21 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

Problem is, you can only get oil on one side of the filter media; you can fill the center, but it won't flow through the perimeter holes. I guess you could let it sit long enough that it might permeate the media and build up on the outside, but I've never had a problem in 35 years starting up with a dry filter. Several of my cars have filters that mount at an angle or horizontal, so you'd end up wearing oil that you put in the filter.
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#22 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:09 AM

You're welcome!

I admit I didn't pay any attention to "Remove for Oil Service" verbiage when I was under the car, or I'd have probably suffered the same confusion you did. According to this thread in the SVT Performance forums, the plastic panel is shared among multiple Mustang variants and the 5.0 engine requires removal to access the oil filter.


OK, that makes sense.
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#23 OFFLINE   Farmer-Ted

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

The plastic plate needs to be removed to change the filter if you have a 5.0 GT. They just used the same plate. No need to remove it.
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#24 OFFLINE   Snoopy49

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

I have always prefilled the oil filters on my cars and trucks, at least on the ones that were mounted vertically with the closed end pointing down.
Just personal preference I guess.

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#25 OFFLINE   440sprint

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:59 AM

Just hold in the clutch, hold the gas pedal to the floor, then crank the engine for 10-15 seconds.

Gas pedal to the floor tells the computer to shut off the gas & cranking allows the oil pump to fill the oil filter & to lubricate the entire engine at ~60 rpm instead of 1200 rpm!

Now, start the car as normal.

In general, this method can also be used with modern cars to clear flooded engines & when starting long stored engines.

#26 OFFLINE   IngotSilverSnake

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:48 AM

I have always prefilled the oil filters on my cars and trucks, at least on the ones that were mounted vertically with the closed end pointing down.
Just personal preference I guess.


+1. This is a smart thing to do if you can. I have taken many automotive maintenance classes over the years. Almost every instructor I have had recommends this practice if possible. It shortens the amount of time to build to full oil pressure. Most dealers don't do this because it takes extra time.

Even if the filter is at an angle (as it is on some vehicles) you can still add some oil before installation. Some engine manufacturers specifically recommend this process in owner's manuals. For example, HD recommend this practice for the Twin Cam V-Twin engines (I used to sell HD bikes). Interestingly, the Twin Cam engine filters install sideways, so you can't get much oil in there but they recommend this process anyway.

You should add some oil to the filter and let it sit for a minute. It will slowly flow through the media and then you can add some more. I particularly like the filter set up on my 2012 Shelby. Since it installs straight up, you can fill the filter up almost to the top before installation.

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#27 OFFLINE   Squirrel 007

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:39 AM

Maybe I am wrong here as I don't know the real reason for pre-filling an oil filter. The filter must fill in seconds when the engine is started and with the fact that all the parts of the engine have an oil film on them I can't fathom any friction damage being done to the engine in that few seconds. I would assume friction damage to be near impossible at that point. The piston squirters are for cooling and the pistons can't get hot enough in those seconds to require oil immediately. So what would be the purpose. It sounds like trying to kill a fly with a Laser Guided 2000 pound bomb. A little over kill? Or is there something based in fact that I am missing here? Can anyone enlighten me as why to do this procedure? Thanks!
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#28 OFFLINE   mullens

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

Bottom line it isn't a bad idea but really not necessary with the little oil these filters hold. 8.5 qts compared to the few ounces in the filter really isn't going to make much of a difference. If you were filling a huge diesel filter I could see it but it really isn't worth the hassle for me. JMHO
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#29 OFFLINE   bergenfelter

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:28 AM

There is enough oil film left on the internal engine components after the oil change you will not damage anything. The oil pump has significant volumetric capabilities it will pressurize the entire oil system in 1-2 seconds - including an empty oil filter.

#30 OFFLINE   MJN

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:07 PM

I alway prefill also when I can, its all in the details and the little things that help.

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