31 replies to this topic

[patrickshelby]

Did anyone experience increase in NVH after upgrading LCA & UCA  to arms like Shelby or BMR - with poly bushings?
Noise from the road or from the differential...?
THANK YOU!

[svt13]

From what I been told from people who have them..... LCA sometimes UCA yes in 99% of cases.

I'm going with the roush upper and lower to play it safe.

[54First]

I got a small increase with the poly UCA and poly/rod end LCAs. At a later date I installed the poly bushing on the top of the diff. Definite increase in NVH but it also made a noticeable difference in axle control. It's also a PITA to install, but I'd do it again. It's all BMR.

Steve

Edited by 54First, 15 October 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[car dude]

I have the Roush upper and the bmr lower with poly and a bmr panhard bar
With the race ends and have no extra noise.  But you do need to grease the lower
with the poly ends.mine need to be done and now.you know when they need it
Because the bushing start to make a creaking noise.

[Albino500]

patrickshelby - you will get an increase with changing the bushings - I would recommend the BMR LCA that has a poly front bushing w/spherical rear bushing . As far as the bushing on the top of the differential - I recommend the spherical unit from Steeda. those two items will free up the articulation of the rear axle and make a huge difference. As far as the UCA - if you are going to a 1 piece driveshaft - you will need an adjustable one - BMR or Roush are both good - use one with a poly bushing ( note - when assembling an UCA to the bracket check for proper fitment - no play - no binding - do this off the car - check for looseness when bolt is installed and then torque bolt to required tightness and then check for binding - if all is good - then install ) but if you are sticking with a stock driveshaft the stock or Roush replacement is good ( however you must install and then torque down the bolt with the car sitting on the ground or with the wheels on a drive on rack with the vehicle weight on the suspension because of the design of the bushing ) .

[patrickshelby]

Albino500, on 18 October 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

patrickshelby - you will get an increase with changing the bushings - I would recommend the BMR LCA that has a poly front bushing w/spherical rear bushing . As far as the bushing on the top of the differential - I recommend the spherical unit from Steeda. those two items will free up the articulation of the rear axle and make a huge difference. As far as the UCA - if you are going to a 1 piece driveshaft - you will need an adjustable one - BMR or Roush are both good - use one with a poly bushing ( note - when assembling an UCA to the bracket check for proper fitment - no play - no binding - do this off the car - check for looseness when bolt is installed and then torque bolt to required tightness and then check for binding - if all is good - then install ) but if you are sticking with a stock driveshaft the stock or Roush replacement is good ( however you must install and then torque down the bolt with the car sitting on the ground or with the wheels on a drive on rack with the vehicle weight on the suspension because of the design of the bushing ) .

Thank you for the advise Albino500
On my 2007 I had the Steeda LCA (billet alum. with heim & poly) and the Steeda UCA (adj. with heim & poly).
It was a bit loud...but I agree it was on rail.
So now for my 2012 I was considering having full poly to lower the noise.
That's why I ask.

[Albino500]

Did not know that you picked up a 2012 - congrats on that - IMO the poly is just as loud if not worse because of the creaking noise when it is binding and/or needs grease . You might want to go to just LCA's w/poly on both and leave the rest stock. JMO

[svt13]

Albino500, on 19 October 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Did not know that you picked up a 2012 - congrats on that - IMO the poly is just as loud if not worse because of the creaking noise when it is binding and/or needs grease . You might want to go to just LCA's w/poly on both and leave the rest stock. JMO

Do rubber bushings cause binding as well? I have never heard a creaking noise from the car.

[patrickshelby]

Albino500, on 19 October 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Did not know that you picked up a 2012 - congrats on that - IMO the poly is just as loud if not worse because of the creaking noise when it is binding and/or needs grease . You might want to go to just LCA's w/poly on both and leave the rest stock. JMO

Got it!
LCA w/poly both ends & grease fittings (!).
Sounds good, I'll try that first.
thx

[Albino500]

svt13, on 19 October 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

Do rubber bushings cause binding as well? I have never heard a creaking noise from the car.

The stock rubber bushings are bonded to the bushings shell and center metal sleeve - they need to be tightened when the vehicle is loaded ( on the ground ) so that when the vehicle is just sitting the bushing is NOT in bind ( twisted - aka = loaded ) . The bushings on both the UCA and differential along with the LCAs are voided so that they can give/comply when they have a load applied to them (forward / back) and absorb the "road shock" and torque twist of the rear axle . However , they are designed to go into bind/twist when the suspension travels up/down ( the center sleeve is locked into place to the body and axle mounts when you tighten down the bolt ) . The only time I have found a noise issue from a stock bushing is when either the bolt was not tight , rust had formed on the sleeve , or when the bushing had gone bad . Really if you pay close attention to the fitment of aftermarket parts w/poly or spherical ends you should not get any more noise than stock - just an increase in harshness and more sensitivity to pre-existing vibrations/harmonics.

[svt13]

Albino500, on 19 October 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

The stock rubber bushings are bonded to the bushings shell and center metal sleeve - they need to be tightened when the vehicle is loaded ( on the ground ) so that when the vehicle is just sitting the bushing is NOT in bind ( twisted - aka = loaded ) . The bushings on both the UCA and differential along with the LCAs are voided so that they can give/comply when they have a load applied to them (forward / back) and absorb the "road shock" and torque twist of the rear axle . However , they are designed to go into bind/twist when the suspension travels up/down ( the center sleeve is locked into place to the body and axle mounts when you tighten down the bolt ) . The only time I have found a noise issue from a stock bushing is when either the bolt was not tight , rust had formed on the sleeve , or when the bushing had gone bad . Really if you pay close attention to the fitment of aftermarket parts w/poly or spherical ends you should not get any more noise than stock - just an increase in harshness and more sensitivity to pre-existing vibrations/harmonics.

When you say harshness you mean more bumpy? The LCA or UCA can do that? So then since they bind or twist when the suspension goes up down as in for example going over bumps that is when they twist, and if we use spherical ends then those solve this twisting? Also since I'm learning about all this suspension stuff why is binding/twisting bad? When do poly bushings bind/twist?

[Albino500]

Binding causes a change in spring rate thus causing a change in ride quality and response change in other dynamics . If installed correctly spherical and poly bushings do NOT go into a bind when twisted. The problem occurs when they are NOT installed properly (ie the installer does not check to see if the center sleeve is a slight bit longer than the bushing so it can be locked into place with the mounting tabs without the side of the poly portion being crushed to the point that it does not rotate with the arm). You need to check each end of the control arm by mounting it and then swing it through its travel making sure that the center sleeve stays still and the poly / spherical portion rotates with the arm and you need to check that you do NOT have an excessive amount of play also . Binding will cause premature wear on parts.

[svt13]

Albino500, on 19 October 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Binding causes a change in spring rate thus causing a change in ride quality and response change in other dynamics . If installed correctly spherical and poly bushings do NOT go into a bind when twisted. The problem occurs when they are NOT installed properly (ie the installer does not check to see if the center sleeve is a slight bit longer than the bushing so it can be locked into place with the mounting tabs without the side of the poly portion being crushed to the point that it does not rotate with the arm). You need to check each end of the control arm by mounting it and then swing it through its travel making sure that the center sleeve stays still and the poly / spherical portion rotates with the arm and you need to check that you do NOT have an excessive amount of play also . Binding will cause premature wear on parts.

I see. I will make sure to remind my installer about this when I put my bobs ones on. Though he's worked on my shelbys so he probably already knows this but this is great information to check to be 100% safe.

What about with UCA? Or do the same things apply? I'm also wondering how come UCA with poly bushings let more noise thru than LCA with poly bushings

[Afdharley]

After a few thousand miles on my suspension upgrades I've found that if I heard any extra noise it was because something had come lose. After I went through everything and re torqued it I've been quiet as stock.

[svt13]

Afdharley, on 19 October 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

After a few thousand miles on my suspension upgrades I've found that if I heard any extra noise it was because something had come lose. After I went through everything and re torqued it I've been quiet as stock.

Even with the Steeda UCA? That is surprising.

[Afdharley]

svt13, on 19 October 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Even with the Steeda UCA? That is surprising.

I know. I had a bit of gear noise after installing it. I checked and adjusted the opinion angle and noose went away.

[svt13]

Afdharley, on 19 October 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I know. I had a bit of gear noise after installing it. I checked and adjusted the opinion angle and noose went away.

Maybe instead of the roush OEM look a like I should look into whiteline UCA since their bushings seem to be the best on the market right now.

[Albino500]

svt13, on 19 October 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Maybe instead of the roush OEM look a like I should look into whiteline UCA since their bushings seem to be the best on the market right now.

Maybe you should look closer at the WL unit because it has an offset hole in the center sleeve - not only will you need the talent to set the pinion angle by rotating that sleeve but hold it while you tighten the bolt in order to lock it in place along with hoping that it does not come loose and rotate thus throwing the pinion angle way off. JMO

[Albino500]

svt13, on 19 October 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

I see. I will make sure to remind my installer about this when I put my bobs ones on. Though he's worked on my shelbys so he probably already knows this but this is great information to check to be 100% safe.

What about with UCA? Or do the same things apply? I'm also wondering how come UCA with poly bushings let more noise thru than LCA with poly bushings

Yes that applies to the UCA also and it transmits more noise because of it 's mounting point to the unibody (center of floor on backbone vs outer corners under rear torque boxes for the LCA)

[svt13]

Albino500, on 21 October 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Maybe you should look closer at the WL unit because it has an offset hole in the center sleeve - not only will you need the talent to set the pinion angle by rotating that sleeve but hold it while you tighten the bolt in order to lock it in place along with hoping that it does not come loose and rotate thus throwing the pinion angle way off. JMO

Well I wouldn't be doing that the mechanic would. Is what your saying difficult to do? I rather not go the steeda route since these bushings are better.