31 replies to this topic

[Albino500]

svt13, on 21 October 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Well I wouldn't be doing that the mechanic would. Is what your saying difficult to do? I rather not go the steeda route since these bushings are better.

Explain to me why they are better and I don't know what is difficult for your mechanic to do or not - ask him if it's difficult.

svt13, on 19 October 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

Maybe instead of the roush OEM look a like I should look into whiteline UCA since their bushings seem to be the best on the market right now.

Again - please explain to me why/how their bushings are the best.

[svt13]

So far everyone who has used whiteline products seem to think they are the best. Apparently their bushings are said to be high quality and maintence free. They also apparently are better at insulating noise. I don't know much about them just from what I read from searching. I was waiting for someone to do a write up on their watts link. I feel that would be the test because if their bushings could keep a watts link quiet then maybe it would do the same for an UCA.

But they do have the best bushing in Australia apparently and are the supplier for the OEMs out there. They also seem to rule the import car aftermarket.

[Jer]

Lots of good info in this thread, I'll confirm a few things and add a few:

1. Poly bushings have less "give" than rubber, so an increase in NVH is very possible. So is the intended benefit of more controlled, "tighter" handling.
2. They need to be greased. If not, they will creak eventually. I still have to lube my FRPP swaybar endlink bushings from time to time, or speed bumps make it creak like a rusty old garden gate.
3. They need to be finally tightened ONLY when the suspension is under load, to prevent pre-loading them in the wrong position. Then they will always be "twisted" somewhat. This decreases their effectiveness and makes them creak, too.
4. Watts links LOCATE the axle, control arms carry a lot of weight. So the odds of a Watts link adding more or less noise is not as significant as LCAs or a UCA. They can increase the RESONANCE of any noise, simply because most include a frame-mounted crossmember (the "frame") that gives the benefit of lower chassis bracing, but can help it "ring" at a different (higher) frequency. That sloppy "thud" when you hit a bump becomes a higher note, like tightening the head on a drum. Not a bad thing, but many people hear it as a "new noise".
5. "Race ends" were designed for racing. They were not designed to be sprayed with sand, salt, and crud on a daily-driven car. So keeping them clean is a must. Most of our "race end" products are Teflon-coated, for easier cleaning. But they still need to be cleaned!



Jer

Edited by Jer, 22 October 2012 - 05:57 AM.

[Tob]

Jer, on 22 October 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

5. "Race ends" were designed for racing. They were not designed to be sprayed with sand, salt, and crud on a daily-driven car. So keeping them clean is a must. Most of our "race end" products are Teflon-coated, for easier cleaning. But they still need to be cleaned!

Jer

Jer, the Teflon in a rod end doesn't utilize a coating but rather a fabric/weave.





Self lubricating and with a rather low coefficient of friction. If you are 'coating' anything with Teflon for easier cleaning I'd be interested to see more about what you are referring to.

Edited by Tob, 22 October 2012 - 07:53 AM.

[Albino500]

Jer, on 22 October 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Lots of good info in this thread, I'll confirm a few things and add a few:


3. They need to be finally tightened ONLY when the suspension is under load, to prevent pre-loading them in the wrong position. Then they will always be "twisted" somewhat. This decreases their effectiveness and makes them creak, too.




Jer

This is only true with rubber - torsional-elastic bushings not with polyurethane bushings !

[Jer]

Corrections:
While I was trying to get the point across that all suspensions should be tightened and torqued at "loaded" position, Mr. Albino clarifies further. OK.
As for the Teflon:   Well, I did say "coated", rather than "lined", so thanks for that clarification.


To compliment the upper control arm, two styles of lower control arms are offered to match your specific vehicle purpose and handling needs: The ‘Street Version’ has self-lubricating UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethelene) bushings in the body side with a self contained self lubricating Teflon/PTFE lined race spherical bearing in the axle side, or the ‘Race Version’ that uses high grade ¾" chromoly self-lubricating Teflon/PTFE lined race rod ends.

  

Jer

[Jer]

Albino500, on 22 October 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

This is only true with rubber - torsional-elastic bushings not with polyurethane bushings !

BTW, This is from BMR Fabrication's Installation Instructions for their poly-bushing UCA:

If using part number UTCA017, the rear end must be loaded before tightening the bolts. To do this, lift the rear to ride height and then tighten the control arm mounting bolts. Tighten both cross-bolts to 129 ft/lbs.

• NOTE: Failure to load the suspension before tightening these bolts can result in premature bushing failure due to bushing pre-load.

Jer

Edited by Jer, 22 October 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[Albino500]

Jer, on 22 October 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

BTW, This is from BMR Fabrication's Installation Instructions for their poly-bushing UCA:

If using part number UTCA017, the rear end must be loaded before tightening the bolts. To do this, lift the rear to ride height and then tighten the control arm mounting bolts. Tighten both cross-bolts to 129 ft/lbs.

• NOTE: Failure to load the suspension before tightening these bolts can result in premature bushing failure due to bushing pre-load.

Jer

That I believe Jer is because of the rubber bushing that is pressed into the top of the differential (which UTCA017 attaches to) is a torsional - elastic bushing ( it has voids in it and is bonded to the inner sleeve and outer shell) and is what BMR is refering to. Just trying to share with people what to look for when installing parts so as not to have issues after the install - seems to be a lot of people whom complain about noise issues after installing such things.

[Jer]

Albino500, on 22 October 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

That I believe Jer is because of the rubber bushing that is pressed into the top of the differential (which UTCA017 attaches to) is a torsional - elastic bushing ( it has voids in it and is bonded to the inner sleeve and outer shell) and is what BMR is refering to. Just trying to share with people what to look for when installing parts so as not to have issues after the install - seems to be a lot of people whom complain about noise issues after installing such things.

Well, we're both after the same thing - happy, safe motorists.
I just wanted to establish a basic principle that will serve most situations best: "Load it before you torque it".
I would also add: "Then check it after a day or two!"



Jer

[Albino500]

Jer, on 22 October 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Well, we're both after the same thing - happy, safe motorists.
I just wanted to establish a basic principle that will serve most situations best: "Load it before you torque it".
I would also add: "Then check it after a day or two!"



Jer

AGREED - GOOD ADVICE JER !

[Tob]

Jer, on 22 October 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

I just wanted to establish a basic principle that will serve most situations best: "Load it before you torque it".
I would also add: "Then check it after a day or two!"

Jer

Excellent practices, both of them!

[Secondo]

Replaced my stock U & LCA bushings on the stock parts with Prothane polyurethane bushings over 3 years ago- no noticeable change in NVH, no issues either.