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Kenny Brown Susension


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#31 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

So what abour
So what about that gap?

I honestly don't know why the washer is even there. The bushing is mounted in a separate cradle that bolts to the K member. The control arm slides into the bushing which has a steel sleeve it rides on. The only reason I see for the washer and the gap is to try to limit dirt being directly splashed at the bushing to control arm mating surface.

#32 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

As you induce more traction with wider tires, you also introduce the possibility to create more wheel hop as the tires are hooking up. With the rear axle kit you get rid of the car squatting and you change the instant center to promote better traction. The kit also changes the geometry to stop the rear end from rising as you stand on the brakes to keep a better front to rear axle balance, which allows the rear tires/brakes to have more grip at the limit of braking.

The car didn't gain anymore traction to hook the car up with the pavement. What it gained was predictability in how it reacts. Instead of the car squatting and the panhard bar shifting the axle to one side to the other as the suspension compresses and this causing the rear axle to steer the car............the car goes absolutely straight now. The limiting factor on the traction is the stock tires can't handle the power being put to them, whether the suspension is stock or modified. Get a better set of tires with this rear suspension kit and the car will gain a significant amount of traction. The other thing is as a driver with this suspension modified I don't feel the need to lift off the throttle now when at the limits of the tires traction, because I feel the car will stay headed in the direction I pointed it at, instead of the rear axle steering the car in an unpredictable direction as the car squatted on the suspension. You can get stupid and feel safer about it.........this allows the stupid factor to continue, along with the grin factor


Thanks! Very good job of describing what it feels like, and what I can expect (not just "this is the greatest thing ever!").

I'm all about being stupid more safely. :lol2:
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#33 OFFLINE   Albino500

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:47 PM

As you induce more traction with wider tires, you also introduce the possibility to create more wheel hop as the tires are hooking up. With the rear axle kit you get rid of the car squatting and you change the instant center to promote better traction. The kit also changes the geometry to stop the rear end from rising as you stand on the brakes to keep a better front to rear axle balance, which allows the rear tires/brakes to have more grip at the limit of braking.

The car didn't gain anymore traction to hook the car up with the pavement. What it gained was predictability in how it reacts. Instead of the car squatting and the panhard bar shifting the axle to one side to the other as the suspension compresses and this causing the rear axle to steer the car............the car goes absolutely straight now. The limiting factor on the traction is the stock tires can't handle the power being put to them, whether the suspension is stock or modified. Get a better set of tires with this rear suspension kit and the car will gain a significant amount of traction. The other thing is as a driver with this suspension modified I don't feel the need to lift off the throttle now when at the limits of the tires traction, because I feel the car will stay headed in the direction I pointed it at, instead of the rear axle steering the car in an unpredictable direction as the car squatted on the suspension. You can get stupid and feel safer about it.........this allows the stupid factor to continue, along with the grin factor

Very nice write up Mr. Haney Glad to hear that rocking horse now stays level ! Enjoy the grin factor ( I like the idea of not having to lift the throttle ) let us know if you decide to go after that creaking with what you find and if you can get it quieted down .

I honestly don't know why the washer is even there. The bushing is mounted in a separate cradle that bolts to the K member. The control arm slides into the bushing which has a steel sleeve it rides on. The only reason I see for the washer and the gap is to try to limit dirt being directly splashed at the bushing to control arm mating surface.

Well that's as honest an answer as one can get - we may never know - we'll just accept that as the way it is.
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#34 OFFLINE   Albino500

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

You sir are 100% correct

TrakRat I stand corrected - Good to know Mr. Haney

Edited by Albino500, 23 October 2012 - 06:52 PM.

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#35 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:03 PM

Is this the gap you were referring too?

Posted Image

I think I've figured out what this gap is for. The Kenny Brown control arm will work with the stock Ford K member with modifications to the front mounting pivot point, while leaving the rear factory rubber bushing in the stock K member alone. Because the rear stock bushing is much larger in both length and diameter when compared to the poly bushing this washer would be flush against the stock rubber bushing keeping dirt from entering the joint. The reason for this is the stock bushing was never intended to be lubricated. I hope this makes sense, because it is the only logical answer to my mind. Once you change the K member to the KB K member system and the much smaller rear poly bushings, the washer becomes useless on the LCA

Edited by Mr. Haney, 24 October 2012 - 01:03 PM.


#36 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:40 PM

I think I've figured out what this gap is for. The Kenny Brown control arm will work with the stock Ford K member with modifications to the front mounting pivot point, while leaving the rear factory rubber bushing in the stock K member alone. Because the rear stock bushing is much larger in both length and diameter when compared to the poly bushing this washer would be flush against the stock rubber bushing keeping dirt from entering the joint. The reason for this is the stock bushing was never intended to be lubricated. I hope this makes sense, because it is the only logical answer to my mind. Once you change the K member to the KB K member system and the much smaller rear poly bushings, the washer becomes useless on the LCA


Good answer, makes sense to me.

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#37 OFFLINE   Albino500

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:02 PM

I'll buy in that it is for the stock cross member with the KB arm AND KB bushing but not with the stock bushing because it is press fitted to the arm. It is probably due to the KB cross member bringing the lower arm forward and down for anti-dive principles and wheelbase change/caster increase (as you noted previously) that it gets positioned like that . JMO
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#38 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:52 AM

I've been quietly trying to resolve a few problems that I've encountered with the KB K member and front lower control arms. To date KB hasn't resolved the problems and I doubt will any time in the near future. The car handles much better than it did stock, but the structural strength of the parts listed is in question. I will be removing the above listed parts shortly from my car. At this time I don't know what will be going back in place. I know the stock parts are stronger and I may use these with poly bushings and dropped ball joints.

I'm advising everybody to be very carefully when considering these parts before purchasing them for use. If you have questions PM me. I don't want to get into a legal battle where someone says I'm defaming the product in public.

#39 OFFLINE   Tob

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

Whoa. That sure took a turn.

Lets be honest about KB. His heart may be in the right place. But the integrity and design of some of his parts has sometimes left a lot to be desired. His fox body panhard bars that used the spare tire well as a structural attachment point were a prime example. There's been a few others as well.

Mr Haney, whether positive or negative, feedback is always helpful in some way. It may not always be gumdrops and lollipops but it is feedback none the less. I'd love to hear where the latest K member/A arms form KB could use some improvement and why. Unless you are planning on not telling the truth about your experiences, or your intent is to be malicious, I'd hardly worry about any defamation. As long as your comments are indeed based on your own experiences there can be no wrong. The fact that you mentioned that "KB hasn't resolved the problems and I doubt will any time in the near future" sure has my attention. The use of the word doubt indicates to me that at some point during an attempt to resolve dissatisfaction for a given product, that the customer was rejected from either service or was denied being made whole.

On edit, here it is, the worst design ever marketed for a fox body panhard bar.
http://www.mustang50...up/viewall.html

Edited by Tob, 10 March 2013 - 08:51 PM.


#40 OFFLINE   Dig-It

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

Subscribing.

Edited by Dig-It, 11 March 2013 - 09:08 AM.

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#41 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:10 PM

Whoa. That sure took a turn.

Lets be honest about KB. His heart may be in the right place. But the integrity and design of some of his parts has sometimes left a lot to be desired. His fox body panhard bars that used the spare tire well as a structural attachment point were a prime example. There's been a few others as well.

Mr Haney, whether positive or negative, feedback is always helpful in some way. It may not always be gumdrops and lollipops but it is feedback none the less. I'd love to hear where the latest K member/A arms form KB could use some improvement and why. Unless you are planning on not telling the truth about your experiences, or your intent is to be malicious, I'd hardly worry about any defamation. As long as your comments are indeed based on your own experiences there can be no wrong. The fact that you mentioned that "KB hasn't resolved the problems and I doubt will any time in the near future" sure has my attention. The use of the word doubt indicates to me that at some point during an attempt to resolve dissatisfaction for a given product, that the customer was rejected from either service or was denied being made whole.

On edit, here it is, the worst design ever marketed for a fox body panhard bar.
http://www.mustang50...up/viewall.html

I'll let the picture do the talking Posted Image

#42 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

Kenny Brown doesn't manufacture any of the parts they sell. Heidts Hot Rods & Muscle Car parts manufactures the parts for KB. Heidts doesn't want to address the problems that I've found with the left front suspension geometry. The left LCA mounts are an 1/8" closer to the car centerline when compared to the right side. This makes it hard to get more than -1* Camber on the left side, yet I can get -2* on the right easily. They used 1.5" x 1.5" square tubing for the K member, but only have a wall thickness of 0.095" or 13 gauge. The design should also have a bar between the two rear LCA to have the opposing forces cancel each other. As much as the tube twisted I doubt this will help much though. The K member in my opinion needs to be re-engineered and my suggestions were shot down by KB himself because of the problem with Heidts not wanting to retool their gigs

Edited by Mr. Haney, 30 March 2013 - 05:34 PM.


#43 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

I just wonder what is the difference between the setup he is running on his car and what happen to your K member. Makes you go hmmmm.

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#44 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:59 AM

I just wonder what is the difference between the setup he is running on his car and what happen to your K member. Makes you go hmmmm.

He uses the same K member in all his cars, including his personal car. KB claimed that it was an aggressive driving style that caused the failure your seeing in the picture. The K member in the pictures didn't come from my car. Once I saw this K member in person and took these pictures, I wanted to remove the K member in my car. This will happen in the next few weeks. The K member in the pictures came from a car that is used exclusively for racing purposes. My contention is a race track is a prepped surface without any potholes. If an aggressive driving style can do this, what can I do at 80, 90, or 100 mph when I hit a 3" deep pothole on a street surface? The K member and LCAs with both the Caster and Anti-Dive geometry changes exert a much higher amount of both pressure and twisting action to this section of tubing in the K member than the stock set up does. The LCA with its lengthening of the wheelbase increases the rocker arm effect of the LCA, which then increases the amount of force the LCA exerts on the rear bushing mounting area of the K member.

Anti-Dive geometry changes on both the KB LCA and K member rear LCA mount........... exerts a ton of energy during braking. I don't know what percentage of anti-dive KB has in this set up. Anti-dive means the angles of the upper and lower mounting points in the front suspension are at such angles that when you stand on the brakes the nose of the car doesn't dive, yet the weight transfer from rear of the car to the front of the car still occurs. Instead of the front springs supporting the weight of this weight transfer from the rear to the front, now the K member and LCAs, have to, along with the strut and strut tower.

Edited by Mr. Haney, 31 March 2013 - 06:02 AM.


#45 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:39 AM

Yea I don't blame ya I dont think I would want to take that chance either. As far as aggressive driving goes is that not what it is all ment for lol.

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#46 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:39 AM

Yea I don't blame ya I dont think I would want to take that chance either. As far as aggressive driving goes is that not what it is all ment for lol.

If you want to win races then attacking the track is necessary in my opinion.

I've noticed in my own car that under hard braking that the front bushings are making strange noises. After seeing this K member and hearing those noises, I decided it would be better to remove the parts.

#47 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:48 AM

Mr. Haney,

Thanks for the update, and for being truthful without being defamatory.

Interesting info about Heidts. I have opportunity to use some of their products in other vehicles; will definitely do my homework first.

Are you still happy with the rear hardware setup?
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#48 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

Mr. Haney,

Thanks for the update, and for being truthful without being defamatory.

Interesting info about Heidts. I have opportunity to use some of their products in other vehicles; will definitely do my homework first.

Are you still happy with the rear hardware setup?

The rear set up is working well on my car. But I have heard of a racer that broke the panhard rod mount KB makes to lower the roll center off of the axle housing. I'm going to install a Torque Arm and Watts Link to give me the peace of mind I want also

#49 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:15 PM

Did they weld on your rear lower control arm mounts("Anti-Squat Traction Bracket")

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#50 OFFLINE   patrickshelby

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:10 AM

In a word: Junk
I don't mind about shit storm... :hysterical:

#51 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:39 AM

Did they weld on your rear lower control arm mounts("Anti-Squat Traction Bracket")

Yes my brackets are welded, but I will have to remove them to use the parts needed for the torque arm

Let me clarify how the panhard rod is mounted. KB uses two brackets to lower the mounting location of the panhard rod from the factory position. This is done to lower the the rear roll center of the car. The two brackets bolt to the original frame and axle mounts for the stock panhard rod. The brackets have two different mounting locations for the panhard rod, one is 3.5" lower than stock and the other is 4.25" lower than stock. By extending the mounting location lower from its original position amplifies the leverage effect of the bracket as it tries to hold the rear axle centered in the car during hard turning maneuvers. KB lowers the roll center so much with this application that the car doesn't need a rear anti-sway bar to have neutral handling.

#52 OFFLINE   patrickshelby

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:14 AM

Yes my brackets are welded, but I will have to remove them to use the parts needed for the torque arm

Let me clarify how the panhard rod is mounted. KB uses two brackets to lower the mounting location of the panhard rod from the factory position. This is done to lower the the rear roll center of the car. The two brackets bolt to the original frame and axle mounts for the stock panhard rod. The brackets have two different mounting locations for the panhard rod, one is 3.5" lower than stock and the other is 4.25" lower than stock. By extending the mounting location lower from its original position amplifies the leverage effect of the bracket as it tries to hold the rear axle centered in the car during hard turning maneuvers. KB lowers the roll center so much with this application that the car doesn't need a rear anti-sway bar to have neutral handling.

Yes and it's that leverage that causes the weakness of the design, if the brackets are not superoverbeefy and welded...

#53 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

I have to admit my plan, but given it may be in time im going to start with their shock package then go with the rear set up. Im thinking next year starting it all.

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#54 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:05 AM

I have to admit my plan, but given it may be in time im going to start with their shock package then go with the rear set up. Im thinking next year starting it all.

I wouldn't, another car in Texas has bent the K-member twice now.

The rear set up works well, but has a few things I don't like.
1) you can not install a rear anti-roll bar with the rear axle traction brackets installed
2) the relocation brackets for the rear roll center on the panhard bar are bending

I dropped my car off today at Performance Autosport to have the KB parts removed. While they have the K member out they're going to install a set of ARH LT headers

Edited by Mr. Haney, 08 April 2013 - 10:06 AM.


#55 OFFLINE   2010KonaBlueGT

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

Unfortunately I have a back injury that gets very aggravated/painful doing anything during the heat of anything competitive in nature and the adrenalin rush associated with it.


Welcome to the club, Brother! I'm not just a member, I'm the President.....

Mine started with a bulging disk at L-5/S-1 and L-4/5. Then the L-5/S-1 herniated and being that it was a "Industrial Injury" (i.e. Work Comp) the Ins. Co. tried to fix it for as little was possible. Rather than go ahead and fuse both levels they approved a Laminectomy/Discectomy. That failed (15% chance of failure) but again, rather that do it right they tried to band-aid it again (Penny wise and Pound foolish). The second attempt failed and they were left with the only option, fusion...but again, in a attempt to save money they only fused the L-5/S-1 level. And of course, that led to the L-4/5 disc herniating and we started all over again. They tried the "rinse/repeat" method and ended up with *exactly* the same results. So rather than 1 smaller cut through the muscle/tissue, I have 6 cuts with a 18" scar (6 of them on top of each other) and now the L-3/4 disc is bulging and I'm likely to go through the same thing again, and agian, and...My Neuro Surgeon calls it "the Domino effect". So I can do VERY little that involves my back without suffering for a day or two after the fact.

Oh, and then the reduction of my Range Of Motion in my low back led to my neck going out (because it now takes up ALL of the 'swivel' to look over my shoulder, etc.). That involved a cervical fusion, which ended up with the same results as my Lumbar discs..."Chasing it up my back" as my Dr. calls it. I need 3 or 4 more cervical levels fused but I can live with a bad neck...For now.

It gets better...

With all of the Mylograms I've had I acquired something called Arachnoiditis (See; http://en.wikipedia....i/Arachnoiditis). The Arachnoid is the middle layer of the membrane called the Meninges. It surrounds your Brain and Spine and retains the Cranical/Spinal Fluid (CSF) that surrounds your brain and spine. The inner and outer layer are called the Pia matter and the Dura matter with the 3 combined being the Meninges (Meningitis is the inflammation or irritation of the Meninges). "Itis" is the inflammation or irritation part of the word so Arachnoid Itis is self explanatory. It will eventually progress to the point that I will be confined to a wheelchair and eventually bed.

NOT fun, but 'it is what it is' so I deal with it.

On to your Kenny Brown suspension work: At one time Kenny Brown was THE suspension guy. I can't remember what happened (I seem to recall a bad accident or a health issue) but he went out of business for quite awhile, at least a few years. He is just now getting back into the swing of things. When I bought all of my suspension items, Kenny Brown wasn't a option. I hear nothing but GOOD about KB suspension products so I think you're in real good hands. I have a feeling that most of the other guys are just copies of Kenny Brown technology.

EDIT: Upon further reading, it appears Kenny Brown still has a way to go to 'get back in the swing of things'. Very sorry to hear of your troubles. Kenny Brown had a GREAT reputation 'back in the day'. Is Kenny Brown still alive or did someone else take over the company and the company name? I seem to remember Kenny Brown being VERY ill, or close to death, or something of that nature.

I'm enjoying your pictorial....


Phill

Edited by 2010KonaBlueGT, 08 April 2013 - 11:41 AM.

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CURRENT MODS: FRPP: Whipple 2.9L Polished Superchager w/Crusher Inlet & Cobra Jet dual 65mm Throttle Body - Ceramic Coated Shorty Headers - Ford Blue Cam Covers - Polished Billet COP & Oil filler Cap Covers - FR3 Handling Pack w/Tokico Struts/Shocks & Eibach Swaybars - Jounce Bumpers - 8.8" Low Profile Axle Girdle - 3" Front Brake Cooling Ducts - Vacuum/Boost Gauge~ MGW: Short Throw Shifter - White w/Blue Stripes Shifter Knob - Radiator and Intercooler Degas Bottle Caps - Seat Recliner Lever Covers - Parking Brake Handle Cover - Coat Hanger Hooks~ PST: 1-piece Carbon Fiber Driveshaft~ Revan Racing: C&R Radiator and Intercooler~ ROUSH: 3x Intercooler Degas Bottle - Side Splitters - Extreme Off-road Exhaust - Adjustable Trailing Arms (LCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link (UCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link Bracket - AC Vent Pod Vac/Boost Gauge Mount~ SHELBY: SC Aux. Idler Pulley - Oil Dipstick Handle, MC, PS & WS Washer Reservoir Caps - 8-qt. Oil Pan - Subframe K-member - Tubular Front A-arms - 6S Extreme Front Brakes - KR Style Front Brake Duct Bezels - Anti Bump-stear Tie-rod Ends - Race Style Swaybar Links - Adjustable Caster/Camber Plates - Adjustable Panhard Bar - Panhard Bar/Body Brace - KR Rear Axle Reservoir - Eradispeed Rear Brake Rotors & Caliper Relocation Brackets - Shelby/BMR Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets -18" GT500KR Alcoa Dura-Bright Wheels & Goodyear KR Winged Boot F1 Supercar tires~

PURCHASED AND AWAITING INSTALLATION: Shelby/Baer Extreme Rear Brakes; Shelby/Metco Fuel Rails, Shelby Alcoa 20" Dura-Bright Super Snake style wheels; NMB2 2-Stage WOT Box, Granatelli Motors Tire Fryer Line-lock, Raptor shift light, ZEX N2O kit, Ford Racing Lighted Sill Plates w/Ford Racing logo.

#56 OFFLINE   2010KonaBlueGT

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:30 AM

Mr Haney, whether positive or negative, feedback is always helpful in some way. It may not always be gumdrops and lollipops but it is feedback none the less. I'd love to hear where the latest K member/A arms form KB could use some improvement and why. Unless you are planning on not telling the truth about your experiences, or your intent is to be malicious, I'd hardly worry about any defamation. As long as your comments are indeed based on your own experiences there can be no wrong.


This is true. Ask any lawyer and they will tell you, you can not (successfully) be sued for Slander/Libel if you are stating a FACT (facts can be proven) or it is your OPINION, and IT IS STATED AS SUCH (Everyone is entitled to their opinion).

If you said "Don't ever buy anything from XYZ company. They make/sell total garbage", you could be sued. But if you say "In my opinion, XYZ Company makes crap products and I wouldn't buy anything from them" you can not be sued.

Or if you say "My XYZ product failed with normal street driving in 100 miles", you can not be sued for it, as long as that is a fact. If you make it up, you can be sued for it.

For instance: My PST 1-piece Carbon Fiber driveshaft that I bought from Justain Starkey at VMP Tuning failed with very few miles on it (I'd have to double check the number of miles before I posted it). I don't have any problem telling the world about it (i.e. FACT). The PST rep told me (and Stephen at VMP) that they have never seen another failure like mine but I have documented proof (i.e. FACT) that they did...So I have NO problem telling the world that they LIED to me (i.e. FACT). Ford Motor Company uses a splined connection where PST uses a bonded connection and IN MY OPINION, the PST method is totally inferior to the FoMoCo method and should not be on the market as it stands (i.e. OPINION, and STATED AS SUCH).

PST (and to some degree, VMP) are pointing fingers at ME saying they believe the problem is with me moving my rear axle back in the chassis and thereby "pulling the bond apart which caused the failure" ("A issue of length", said Justin Starkey) even though I sent them pictures of the driveshaft with a measuring tape beside it showing the shaft was 3/4" too long, counter to what I ordered. I took issue with Justin Starkey over his comments in a associated thread and I told him I expect a public apology from him. Until I receive that, I will tell everyone who listens that Justin Starkey/VMP Tuning sent me a driveshaft that was too long and THAT'S why I *had* to move the axle back in the body (i.e. FACT).

PST and/or VMP could never successfully bring litigation against me because what I state is FACT, or OPINION and STATED AS SUCH.

State the facts or your opinion, and state it as your opinion and you will be indemnified from legal action.


Phill
2010 GT500 Coupe
Kona Blue w/White OTT Stripes and Red Accent Stripes
Electronics Package, HID's & Car Cover


CURRENT MODS: FRPP: Whipple 2.9L Polished Superchager w/Crusher Inlet & Cobra Jet dual 65mm Throttle Body - Ceramic Coated Shorty Headers - Ford Blue Cam Covers - Polished Billet COP & Oil filler Cap Covers - FR3 Handling Pack w/Tokico Struts/Shocks & Eibach Swaybars - Jounce Bumpers - 8.8" Low Profile Axle Girdle - 3" Front Brake Cooling Ducts - Vacuum/Boost Gauge~ MGW: Short Throw Shifter - White w/Blue Stripes Shifter Knob - Radiator and Intercooler Degas Bottle Caps - Seat Recliner Lever Covers - Parking Brake Handle Cover - Coat Hanger Hooks~ PST: 1-piece Carbon Fiber Driveshaft~ Revan Racing: C&R Radiator and Intercooler~ ROUSH: 3x Intercooler Degas Bottle - Side Splitters - Extreme Off-road Exhaust - Adjustable Trailing Arms (LCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link (UCA) - Adjustable 3rd Link Bracket - AC Vent Pod Vac/Boost Gauge Mount~ SHELBY: SC Aux. Idler Pulley - Oil Dipstick Handle, MC, PS & WS Washer Reservoir Caps - 8-qt. Oil Pan - Subframe K-member - Tubular Front A-arms - 6S Extreme Front Brakes - KR Style Front Brake Duct Bezels - Anti Bump-stear Tie-rod Ends - Race Style Swaybar Links - Adjustable Caster/Camber Plates - Adjustable Panhard Bar - Panhard Bar/Body Brace - KR Rear Axle Reservoir - Eradispeed Rear Brake Rotors & Caliper Relocation Brackets - Shelby/BMR Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets -18" GT500KR Alcoa Dura-Bright Wheels & Goodyear KR Winged Boot F1 Supercar tires~

PURCHASED AND AWAITING INSTALLATION: Shelby/Baer Extreme Rear Brakes; Shelby/Metco Fuel Rails, Shelby Alcoa 20" Dura-Bright Super Snake style wheels; NMB2 2-Stage WOT Box, Granatelli Motors Tire Fryer Line-lock, Raptor shift light, ZEX N2O kit, Ford Racing Lighted Sill Plates w/Ford Racing logo.

#57 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:41 PM

Welcome to the club, Brother! I'm not just a member, I'm the President.....

Mine started with a bulging disk at L-5/S-1 and L-4/5. Then the L-5/S-1 herniated and being that it was a "Industrial Injury" (i.e. Work Comp) the Ins. Co. tried to fix it for as little was possible. Rather than go ahead and fuse both levels they approved a Laminectomy/Discectomy. That failed (15% chance of failure) but again, rather that do it right they tried to band-aid it again (Penny wise and Pound foolish). The second attempt failed and they were left with the only option, fusion...but again, in a attempt to save money they only fused the L-5/S-1 level. And of course, that led to the L-4/5 disc herniating and we started all over again. They tried the "rinse/repeat" method and ended up with *exactly* the same results. So rather than 1 smaller cut through the muscle/tissue, I have 6 cuts with a 18" scar (6 of them on top of each other) and now the L-3/4 disc is bulging and I'm likely to go through the same thing again, and agian, and...My Neuro Surgeon calls it "the Domino effect". So I can do VERY little that involves my back without suffering for a day or two after the fact.

Oh, and then the reduction of my Range Of Motion in my low back led to my neck going out (because it now takes up ALL of the 'swivel' to look over my shoulder, etc.). That involved a cervical fusion, which ended up with the same results as my Lumbar discs..."Chasing it up my back" as my Dr. calls it. I need 3 or 4 more cervical levels fused but I can live with a bad neck...For now.

It gets better...

With all of the Mylograms I've had I acquired something called Arachnoiditis (See; http://en.wikipedia....i/Arachnoiditis). The Arachnoid is the middle layer of the membrane called the Meninges. It surrounds your Brain and Spine and retains the Cranical/Spinal Fluid (CSF) that surrounds your brain and spine. The inner and outer layer are called the Pia matter and the Dura matter with the 3 combined being the Meninges (Meningitis is the inflammation or irritation of the Meninges). "Itis" is the inflammation or irritation part of the word so Arachnoid Itis is self explanatory. It will eventually progress to the point that I will be confined to a wheelchair and eventually bed.

NOT fun, but 'it is what it is' so I deal with it.

On to your Kenny Brown suspension work: At one time Kenny Brown was THE suspension guy. I can't remember what happened (I seem to recall a bad accident or a health issue) but he went out of business for quite awhile, at least a few years. He is just now getting back into the swing of things. When I bought all of my suspension items, Kenny Brown wasn't a option. I hear nothing but GOOD about KB suspension products so I think you're in real good hands. I have a feeling that most of the other guys are just copies of Kenny Brown technology.

EDIT: Upon further reading, it appears Kenny Brown still has a way to go to 'get back in the swing of things'. Very sorry to hear of your troubles. Kenny Brown had a GREAT reputation 'back in the day'. Is Kenny Brown still alive or did someone else take over the company and the company name? I seem to remember Kenny Brown being VERY ill, or close to death, or something of that nature.

I'm enjoying your pictorial....


Phill

Wow Phill, I'm sorry to hear about your back problems. I understand your limitations and your aggravations. After my operation at L4 & 5 and the problems I encountered afterwards, I wish I would have never had the operation and lived with the pain I was in, because it was better than, then it is now. I had a 15 year old kid on a Saturday morning that was still out parting from Friday night with his 17 year old girl friends car try to drive through the side of a very nice 69 Camaro I had. Unfortunately both were from homes that didn't care or have any financial resources to pay for the property or physical injury damages they caused. Both sets of parents were drunks and the kids where following in the parents foot steps. Fortunately I had insurance for both the car and myself.

Kenny Brown is alive and well today. He did have a pulmonary infection that almost killed him and took a very long time to recover from. This is why he left the aftermarket tuner business for a number of years. He did not have the resources to start over by himself after his recovery. This is why he teamed up with Heidts to manufacture his designs of the past and the new stuff he came up with once he decided to get back into the business again.

The problem is that with this business arrangement between the two companies Heidts doesn't want to address any changes that need to be made once a problem has been identified in a timely manner. I talked with KB for over an hour about the problems and what I felt needed to be done to resolve it. He said it would take him a year to get Heidts to make those changes.

I was told about a car in Texas that has bent the K member twice, I'm not going to drive a car that I can't feel safe in. So the parts are coming out. I had some issues with the location of the left control arm mounting points, those didn't make me think twice when I hit a pothole, but seeing the bent K member makes me think every time I hit a bridge joint or pothole hard. If I have to second guess what is going on under me with the car while driving..........I don't need to be doing it or using that part any longer.

Here are a few more pictures for you to enjoy

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#58 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:58 PM

Haney:

Dont get me wrong here on what about to say or how word it but I beleive everthing you have talked about and the facts you have shared with me but what I don't understand is Kenny runs this entire set up on his mustang (Rubby) at our local and other tracks and he really seems not to mess around. Also "Rubby" does still do occasional drives around the Chicago area on local roads. I just dont seem to understand what happen to cause the bending and such. Trust me cause of this I have been very spectical on what route to take. Plus there is a thread on SVTPerformance about relocation brackets causing problems.

Edited by MJN, 08 April 2013 - 04:27 PM.

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#59 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:56 AM

Haney:

Dont get me wrong here on what about to say or how word it but I beleive everthing you have talked about and the facts you have shared with me but what I don't understand is Kenny runs this entire set up on his mustang (Rubby) at our local and other tracks and he really seems not to mess around. Also "Rubby" does still do occasional drives around the Chicago area on local roads. I just dont seem to understand what happen to cause the bending and such. Trust me cause of this I have been very spectical on what route to take. Plus there is a thread on SVTPerformance about relocation brackets causing problems.

The problem is being caused by the anti-dive geometry changes Kenny Brown engineered into the design of the mounting points of the lower control arms.

The angles in side view of both the upper and lower mounting points of the suspension and where these angles intersect is the Instant Center. What KB is doing is moving the Instant Center in relationship to the Center of Gravity of the car. By moving the IC, KB is using the energy of the rotating brake rotor to support the weight transfer from the rear of the car to the front of the car under braking. In layman's terms. He takes the energy stored in the rotors mass and transfers it to the suspension. This energy wants to twist the caliper, which wants to twist the spindle. Use this energy as a lever to support the weight transfer of the car from the rear to the front under braking and the car no longer dives in the front under hard braking.

The problem is now instead of the front springs compressing and supporting the weight transfer under braking. The suspension uses the geometry changes to support this weight and transfers this energy to the suspension mounting points.

I've watched both KB and the driver of the car these parts came off of in car videos of them racing and in my opinion. The driver of this car is a much more aggressive driver than KB is and utilizes his brakes to out brake his opponents in over taking maneuvers to the point of making me wounder if he was going to go off track. By him using his brakes to that extent, he is transferring a much higher amount of energy to the K member and lower control arms than KB is. Evidently the other car in Texas has a driver utilizing the same type of braking style, since he has bent 2 K members in less than a year also.

The other problem in my opinion is also the lower control arms. I took measurements of both the stock and KB LCAs. KB moves the front wheel forward to increase Caster and to transfer weight more evenly in the car from front to rear. By doing this he also increased the ratio of leverage the LCA applies to the rear mounting position and bushing at the K member. Ford built an unusual design in the LCAs and they actually work as a rocker arm and the way the transfer the energy to the rear mount of the K member in my opinion. Ford was also smart in putting a brace from both rear bushing mounts to each other this allowed the energy from each side of the car to cancel each other out. KB didn't do this and allows this energy to be transferred into the K member. Ford also built their K member with a rectangular tubing design of 1 3/8" x 2 " 14 gauge with a welded flange of roughly 1/2" with the wider section of tubing going horizontally. This creates a stronger tube design to counteract the forces applied by the LCA. KB went with square tubing in 1 1/2" x 1 1/2 " 13 gauge or 0.095". I suggested to him that he change the tubing to 1 1/2" x 2" with a wall thickness of .120" and to put the cross brace between the rear mounts. He told me it would take a year for Heidts to do this, if they agreed to change their gigs to accommodate the changes.

I also found an issue with the locations of the LCAs versus the centerline of the car. I was told in November of 2012 that they would change the K member gigs to fix this problem and send me a new K member. So far this hasn't happened. I'm tired of waiting and I'm not getting any answers from the KB sales rep, so the parts are coming off the car. If you'd like to buy them, I'll sell them to you for $0.50 on the $1 of new parts plus shipping. The rear suspension on the street should work very well. The front K member would be your choice to use and I am not going to say that it is safe to use. I do believe if you installed a cross brace between the rear bushing mounting points that it would help a considerable amount.

#60 ONLINE   MJN

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:53 AM

Pm sent and I get what your saying makes sense. Specially when you listen to him saying how he likes to run such a high spring rate, higher then most he says.

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