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Kenny Brown Susension


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#61 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:17 PM

Pm sent and I get what your saying makes sense. Specially when you listen to him saying how he likes to run such a high spring rate, higher then most he says.

I sent you a PM also as a reply

#62 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:21 PM

Hey Rich, iPhones have nice cameras, don't they? Especialy when someone is distracted and not paying attention to me at the moment in their shop. I told you two months ago that I was fed up and angry about the situation and you never responded

Edited by Mr. Haney, 09 April 2013 - 12:21 PM.


#63 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

Pm sent and I get what your saying makes sense. Specially when you listen to him saying how he likes to run such a high spring rate, higher then most he says.

You have to run a higher spring rate with any strut based suspension. A strut based front suspension has a lot of negative camber gain on the inside tire when cornering hard as the body of the car rolls off center. Excessively stiff front springs will help this somewhat, because the car doesn't want to lean or roll off center as much. The SLA suspensions can run a much softer front spring because it can keep the inside tire much flatter with the ground while the body is leaning hard in a corner

#64 OFFLINE   svttim

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:19 AM

I'll let the picture do the talking Posted Image


So, this is your K-member? I thought you were just taking them off the car?

Sorry, I just read where you stated it was not the part on your car. Ill be honest, I can break any part you put on my car. I get very agressive on track and, believe me, I have broken parts that are well tested and marketed through Ford Racing, Maxim Motorsports ect. I dont believe there is a silver bullit out there when it comes to suspention as some claim to be. That being said, anything that out there can be broken, Im not sure why your concerned with someone elses failure. Do you know where the part came from?

Edited by svttim, 11 April 2013 - 02:58 AM.

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#65 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:14 AM

So, this is your K-member? I thought you were just taking them off the car?

Sorry, I just read where you stated it was not the part on your car. Ill be honest, I can break any part you put on my car. I get very agressive on track and, believe me, I have broken parts that are well tested and marketed through Ford Racing, Maxim Motorsports ect. I dont believe there is a silver bullit out there when it comes to suspention as some claim to be. That being said, anything that out there can be broken, Im not sure why your concerned with someone elses failure. Do you know where the part came from?

No this isn't my K member. Yes I'm removing mine

If someone else can break it, so can I. My car is street driven and a possible failure in the future leaves me liable for the damages and injuries I cause, if I have an accident involving a another party or property during a failure, if I can not maintain control of the car.........I am liable

I have owned and driven tractor trailers for most of my adult life. I've been sued for being involved in an accident that was not my fault and where the driver that caused the accident was convicted in traffic court for causing the accident. The gentleman was also suffering from Alzheimer Disease and lost his driving privileges for life after the accident he caused that day in court. But because I'm the guy in with a million dollar liability insurance policy, I get listed as a contributor to the accident and sued. This accident involved multiple cars with 4 people injured. The suits of these 4 injured parties were considered nuisance suits by my commercial truck insurance company. The other gentleman's insurance company played a game and didn't want to accept any liability. Until I and my insurance company filed a suit against the gentleman for my damages and lost income along with the other parties. Then I really got screwed by a bunch of lawyers manipulating the system for the insurance companies. To get rid of these nuisance suits, my insurance company paid 50% of the claims, because they felt it was cheaper than paying the high priced lawyers fees at $400 per hours to collect evidence, to take depositions and finally to represent me in court. My insurance companies lawyers used my suit as leverage to bring the other company to the table to negotiate this 50% payout and not pay the legal fees needed to go to court. The insurance company didn't care how it was settled as long as their pay out was reduced. Everybody on my side decided it was better to pay 1/2 the claims than spend the legal fees and not pay anything. Read your insurance policy, because you gave up your rights in how you can defend yourself in a lawsuit when you signed the application form for the insurance policy.............yes I'm paranoid

I'm sure the accident is listed as public record in Fredericksburg VA in Nov of 2007,if you care to look it up. The person that caused this accident entered a limited access roadway on ramp. At the top of the ramp he decided he didn't want to go eastbound and made a U-turn into oncoming eastbound traffic. Try stopping an 84,000 lb truck on a dime when you are completely surrounded with cars and a jersey wall on each side of you and have no place to go when everybody in the group of vehicles comes around a blind curve to see a car coming at them head on and tries to stop. A car can stop in 1/3 the distance of a loaded tractor trailer. From the skid marks and point of impact I needed roughly 5 more feet of pavement to stop without hitting anybody, but I ran out of room. There were multiple witnesses that stood up for me that day at the accident scene and in traffic court against the person that caused this accident, but our great legal system somehow made me liable for 50% of the damages..........yeah I'm still angry about it too.

#66 OFFLINE   Husky44

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

Mr. Haney:

You being a trucker explains a lot. Never driven one, but I have managed logistics and transportation for most of my life, so I do a lot of work with truckers, and I've found that there are generally two types, kinda like pilots. You sound like the old trucker type--the true professionals. That makes sense because of the way you've always talked about your car.

Your story stinks--sorry to hear that you had to go through all of that. I'm constantly amazed that tractor trailer accidents aren't higher, because most drivers around you guys are knot-heads. Having been involved in transportation safety, I know the only reason accident rates aren't higher is because you guys are well-trained at recognizing what the knot-head is about to do, and planning to avoid it.

Thanks for doing your job, and doing it well. And thanks for your great contributions to this forum. I, for one, highly value your input.
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#67 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:46 AM

Mr. Haney:

You being a trucker explains a lot. Never driven one, but I have managed logistics and transportation for most of my life, so I do a lot of work with truckers, and I've found that there are generally two types, kinda like pilots. You sound like the old trucker type--the true professionals. That makes sense because of the way you've always talked about your car.

Your story stinks--sorry to hear that you had to go through all of that. I'm constantly amazed that tractor trailer accidents aren't higher, because most drivers around you guys are knot-heads. Having been involved in transportation safety, I know the only reason accident rates aren't higher is because you guys are well-trained at recognizing what the knot-head is about to do, and planning to avoid it.

Thanks for doing your job, and doing it well. And thanks for your great contributions to this forum. I, for one, highly value your input.

Thank you

I've driven a few of the dinosaurs of trucking in my time, so I guess that would qualify me as old school. After awhile behind the wheel, you do get a knack for predicting the other persons next movement. It is in your best interest to develop this skill, because it keeps you and others alive. When the accident I described above happened, I had a tractor trailer behind me that was being driven by a friend of mine. I hollered at him on the radio that we were checking up hard and fast. When he came out from behind me, he missed rear ending my trailer by a few inches. He didn't realize that I had a pick-up truck alongside me on the right and that I was trapped in the lane with a jersey barrier 2' to my left. He took evasive action to keep from rear ending the pick-up truck and drove onto the shoulder and grass to keep from hitting the pick-up. He weaved the truck between two trees and was very lucky in not hitting anything or anybody. When you know its going to be close, you look for the hole, because to hit anything is to destroy it. 80,000+ Lbs of steel, aluminum and rubber can do massive amounts of carnage.

Why people in cars go to great lengths to cut off a truck to get ahead always amazes me, when the slightest miscalculation on their part could kill them or the truck driver being distracted and not reacting to the stupidity could kill them. Is a few seconds really worth the risk? When I decided I had enough of trucking, a 21 year old girl texting while driving and parked her brand new car under my trailer at 55 mph. Her car was destroyed, but she was lucky and actually walked away unscratched. Needless to say I went through a battle with her insurance company to pay my losses. After this I parked the truck and only drive it as a toy a few times a year now. 20 years ago trucking was fun, today it isn't fun or worth the risk of losing everything you own to someone else because of some other persons stupidity.

Edited by Mr. Haney, 12 April 2013 - 03:48 AM.


#68 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:53 AM

, Im not sure why your concerned with someone elses failure.

I'll describe it in one word

Liability

Now with my last two posts, do you understand the WHY when you read this word?

#69 OFFLINE   svttim

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:05 AM

I'll describe it in one word

Liability

Now with my last two posts, do you understand the WHY when you read this word?


Sorry you got jacked around by the legal system. As you have observed, it leaves a lot to be desired. I have also driven truck, not to the extent you did but i understand what your saying, I'm also a emergency vehicle driver instructor and driver. Try getting trough traffic when someones life or property is on the line, understanding the courts hold you to a higher standard than the average driver. And I'm sure you probably have figured out, your life means less to some people than their lunch date. Talk about paranoid, I qualify.

My point was this, you have called a manufacturer to task in a public forum over a failure you give us no background on. Racing puts many times the stresses on parts that street driving does. What can break on track does not mean the same can happen on the street. I respect your decision to remove the part, certainly, its your car and your right. The fact that you had to sneak a picture leads me to believe that this part was a prototype, a development piece or something similar. You certainly can correct me if its something else. I'm not saying I don't appreciate the information. I'm saying share it all and be fair.
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#70 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

Sorry you got jacked around by the legal system. As you have observed, it leaves a lot to be desired. I have also driven truck, not to the extent you did but i understand what your saying, I'm also a emergency vehicle driver instructor and driver. Try getting trough traffic when someones life or property is on the line, understanding the courts hold you to a higher standard than the average driver. And I'm sure you probably have figured out, your life means less to some people than their lunch date. Talk about paranoid, I qualify.

My point was this, you have called a manufacturer to task in a public forum over a failure you give us no background on. Racing puts many times the stresses on parts that street driving does. What can break on track does not mean the same can happen on the street. I respect your decision to remove the part, certainly, its your car and your right. The fact that you had to sneak a picture leads me to believe that this part was a prototype, a development piece or something similar. You certainly can correct me if its something else. I'm not saying I don't appreciate the information. I'm saying share it all and be fair.

The manufacturer is reading this

You're are correct in my not telling it all. There is much more to the story, but I was trying to resolve it without too much fuss. But that doesn't seem to be happening. I started this thread to say.........Hey this stuff works. After using it on the car for a short period of time I found its faults and was hoping the manufacturer would fix my car and the gig accordingly. This is what they promised me anyway. I made my first comment about my dissatisfaction in a manner that said I no longer endorsed the product. I wanted others to think twice before jumping down the same rabbit hole I'm in now. What made me bring up more of my dissatisfaction was the post made by Tob.

The part pictured is an exact duplicate of the one on my car. I'd estimate that it was manufactured roughly 9 or 10 months before mine was manufactured. It was strictly used in a racing environment, where mine is strictly used in a street environment. Here is my problem with the the K member installed on my car.

1) the mounting position of the left side Lower Control Arm is not symmetrical with the right side. Part of the difference is due to engineering on Kenny Brown's part. Part of it is Heidts poorly made gig used to manufacture the K member. Both left side LCA bushing mounting brackets are 1/8" closer to the center-line of the car than the right side LCA mounting brackets. They are also slightly forward when compared to the right to add Caster to the left side and bring both the left and right side Caster to the same measurement without Caster/Camber Plates this was engineered into the part. The 1/8" off center problem was brought to the attention of the National Sales Rep for Kenny Brown in November of last year. I was promised a new K member at this time with the LCA mounting positions symmetrical. This hasn't happened.

2) in January of this year the K member in these pictures was removed from the race car that it was installed in. Because I was already disgusted with the lack of response from KB about the above listed item. I stopped by the shop where the race car is based to inspect the new suspension components going in the car. But what really grabbed my attention was the K member coming out.



With me driving the car above the posted speed limit than I'm accepting some liability if I get involved in an accident with another driver who caused the accident in the first place. Now throw in the possibility of a parts failure on my car causing an accident. Who is at fault?

My contention is if I am driving 80-85mph on an Interstate highway and hit a 3" deep pothole and this K member bends and changes the steering geometry of the car and causes me to be involved in an accident with another person........who is at fault? Me? Kenny Brown? Both me and Kenny Brown? If Kenny Brown is listed as a party in the lawsuit due to a inferior product, the company has product liability insurance I'm sure. What will his Insurance Company say or do to lay more of the blame on me for the accident when his part failed during a road hazard impact? Kenny's own comment to me was that I'd blow the tire off the rim first and have control issues anyway. This maybe true. But I've completely blown the left front steer tire off of a tractor trailer at 80 mph after hitting a piece of steel laying in the roadway. Guess what, even though I was riding on an aluminum wheel, I still had very predictable steering. Both front tires were pointing in the direction I wanted the truck to go. If I do blow the front tire on this car when hitting this 3" deep pothole, but also bend the K member or other suspension parts, then I've lost control of the car. Who's at fault if I strike another car? Me or Kenny Brown? I do believe the right type of road hazard impact will fold up these parts. In the process of removing the parts from my car it has been found that I've already bent the bracket for the panhard bar. No race driving........just plain ole street driving

Now lets think about this a little further. Now that I know that there is a possibility of this part failing during a road hazard impact, yet I don't remove it from the car. How much more blame will Kenny Brown's Product Liability Insurance Carrier try to lay on me, if I do get involved in an accident caused by this failure?

Why would I want to take the risk?

A race track is a controlled environment where there is plenty of run off room. Where other participants except the possibilities of another drivers mistake causing damage to their car. This isn't the case on the street. You can't move out of your lane without accepting responsibility for the car along side you. Lose 10% of the steering control of your car due to a mechanical failure and strike the car along side you and it's your fault and you have to pay for it, even if you kill them. You've seen the carnage of many accidents, I don't want to add to your list or anyone elses. I watched a girl lose her life because she lost control of a perfectly good car on I95 when she swerved between cars......she took out 3 other cars at the same time, because she couldn't regain control of a car with a perfect suspension. Why would I want to risk the possibilities of a part failure at 70 mph? Should I have stayed quiet to keep the status quo? I'm the one with over $6000 in suspension modifications and labor, I should have taken the 60+ $100 bills I used to do this to make a fire to roast marshmallows. At least I wouldn't be paying to restore the car's front suspension to its stock K member and LCAs now

Edited by Mr. Haney, 13 April 2013 - 07:40 PM.


#71 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:07 PM

I should mention one other thing.

If I build my own cross brace between the rear LCA bushing mounts of the Kenny Brown K member This would strengthen the K member substantially. But if by doing this without Kenny Brown's approval, knowledge or supplying his engineered part to do the same thing. Do I than become responsible for the LCAs and the possibility of them failing. As you strengthen the K member........more stress is introduced into the LCA under braking. If the LCA failed and caused me to have an accident then KB and his Product Liability Insurance Carrier could than say I caused the failure which resulted in the accident, not a bad LCA.

#72 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:39 AM

The removal of the KB parts is almost done. Waiting on the fittings for the rear axle cover to install the oil cooler lines, an alignment and it will be done. As you may notice the stock K member is back in the car, but it is hard to see from this picture. The ARH 1 7/8" LT headers and X pipe are in, along with the Borla 2.75" mandrel bent over axle pipes and Corsa mufflers. PAS posted a picture to their Facebook page with them test fitting a Cortex Racing SLA K member. This was a test fit for header clearance on the GT500s with different mounting heights of the engine for blower to hood clearances and header to K member clearances. Cortex doesn't make a lower control arm that works with the stock spindle and strut assembly and their K member at this time. Since my car had the K member out of it, PAS and CorteX used it to see what possible problems could arise with the SLA K member for CorteX GT500 customers in the future. None were found with the engine being able to be lowered for blower clearance with this parts combo.

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#73 OFFLINE   MJN

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

Looking good! Interesting to hear how it handles and compares

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#74 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:01 AM

Looking good! Interesting to hear how it handles and compares

I'm hoping to pick the car up late Saturday afternoon if I can find the time.

#75 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:29 AM

This is an interesting page on Facebook.

http://www.facebook....295217680610101

#76 OFFLINE   MJN

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:21 AM

I don't see you on there lol

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#77 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:28 AM

I don't see you on there lol

No you don't....... LOL If you look closely at the picture of the car in the header of the Facebook page and compare it to pictures of the car in this thread..........they just might look very similar

#78 OFFLINE   Mr. Haney

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 03:59 AM

Well the "SAGA" continues................

 

Kenny Brown Performance said they were going to refund my purchase costs of the parts returned to them and went as far as to issue a Return Material Authorization Number. Heck, they were even nice enough to provide the United Parcel Service shipping labels to return the parts to their facility. I just haven't gotten a refund for the returned parts and they have had these parts in their possession for 2 months now. Every time I or the selling Kenny Brown Dealer asks about the refund, the paperwork and payment has been approved, but is sitting on somebodies desk that went on vacation or just came back from vacation and as soon as they get caught up. The refund will becoming forthwith.

 

I guess my definition of, "in a timely manner" and theirs is different.

 

I'm not only out the money for the purchase, but I don't even have the parts to look at and say to  myself that this was a mistake.


Edited by Mr. Haney, 28 June 2013 - 04:01 AM.


#79 OFFLINE   TurboGT

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:47 AM

Ugh!  It stinks when you have to deal with someone on the phone about a refund.  Sure hope you get this resolved.


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