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Going for 400 hp on SGT - Naturally Aspirated


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#151 OFFLINE   ilmor

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:10 AM

Andy, sounds great! Looks like you're finally acheiving your goals.

As for "should have felt after it rolled off the line from SAI", I guess SAI would have had to have either sold it with only a 93 Tune, or provided an ability to switch. Woulda just been more expensive!

Personally, I'm glad I don't have to pay for 93 octane; in fact, it'd be much better if I could use 87 octane in the SGT such as I do with my 5.0 (having 408 hp on 87 is nice).

Hell - regular 87 is $4.05 / gallon where I live!!!
2007 Shelby GT CSM# 07SGT1917 - the "Garage Queen"

Performance White, Hurst 5-Speed, Premium Package



Shelby 4.6L Racing Valve Covers ,Shelby Turbo Mufflers, Shelby GT Brake Duct Kit, "S" snake faux gas cap, Carroll Shelby autographed dash, Improved Shelby GT hood scoop replaced by Tasca Mod Shop, Craig's Custom License Plate Bracket, Baer GT Rotors, Hawk HP Plus Pads, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Hi Temp Brake Fluid, J&M Street/Race Extreme Joint Lower Control Arms, J&M Double Adjustable Panhard Rod (Street/Race) ...



2013 Mustang GT Premium - the "Daily Driver"

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#152 OFFLINE   AndyGJ

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

Ilmor,

I forget that the 91 versus 93 octane is an issue for many folks. I guess we are spoiled here in GA to have the 93 octane available.
I filled up the Expedition last night and 93 premium in our area was $4.07. I agree...408HP on 87 octane is a sweet thing!! Just wish I could get 408 HP in my SGT...soon, I hope!!

Andy.

Present Mustang:
2008 Shelby GT Convertible #1676

Mods Installed:
BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 Tires (275/40/R18 Front & Rear)
CDC Sequential Tail Lights
FRPP GT500KR Axleback Mufflers
FRPP GT500KR 18" Rims
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Boss 302 Low Expansion Brakelines
Hawk HPS Brake Pads (front & rear)
JBA Tuned Length Ceramic Shorty Headers
LD's Performance Custom Tuning (91 & 93 Octane) w/SCT-X3 Tuner
Redline Hood Struts (w/update kit)
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5w20

Royal Purple Differential Gear Lub

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid
Shelby Lower Radiator Grill Insert - Black
Shelby 4.6L Valve Covers
Shelby GT Berg Snake Faux Gas Cap
Shelby GT Berg Snake Front Floor Mats & Trunk Mat
Shelby Plain Rear Seat Floor Mats
Shelby Billet Engine Cap Set
Shelby Billet Fusebox Cover
Shelby Transmission Cooler Scoop
Shelby Front Brake Duct Cooling Kit

Shelby Fays2 Watts Link
Performance Brake Slotted & Cross Drilled Rotors (front & rear)
Ford Motorcraft DOT4 Brake Fluid
Steeda CAI Intake Elbow w/Black Tube
Steeda Motor Mounts (red inserts)
Steeda Under Drive Pulley

Prior Mustangs:

1968 Mustang Coupe - Midnight Blue
1966 Mustang Convertible 289v2 - Red w/black top & interior (still in the family)
1973 Mustang Convertible 351W - Poppy Red w/black top & interior - MCA Senior Division Grand National Retired Winner
1989 Mustang Hatchback 5.0 w/5spd - 25th Anniversary - Red w/red & black interior


#153 OFFLINE   ilmor

ilmor

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:01 AM

Ilmor,

I forget that the 91 versus 93 octane is an issue for many folks. I guess we are spoiled here in GA to have the 93 octane available.
I filled up the Expedition last night and 93 premium in our area was $4.07. I agree...408HP on 87 octane is a sweet thing!! Just wish I could get 408 HP in my SGT...soon, I hope!!

Andy.


Just to clarify...we do have 93 octane where I live - but the cost/gal. is ridiculous...I think near $4.50 in my area.


2007 Shelby GT CSM# 07SGT1917 - the "Garage Queen"

Performance White, Hurst 5-Speed, Premium Package



Shelby 4.6L Racing Valve Covers ,Shelby Turbo Mufflers, Shelby GT Brake Duct Kit, "S" snake faux gas cap, Carroll Shelby autographed dash, Improved Shelby GT hood scoop replaced by Tasca Mod Shop, Craig's Custom License Plate Bracket, Baer GT Rotors, Hawk HP Plus Pads, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Hi Temp Brake Fluid, J&M Street/Race Extreme Joint Lower Control Arms, J&M Double Adjustable Panhard Rod (Street/Race) ...



2013 Mustang GT Premium - the "Daily Driver"

Black / Black & Glass Roof, 6-Speed SelectShift, Sync, NAV, Interior Upgrade.....


#154 OFFLINE   07SGT

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

Andy, if your SGT was running very rich I would definitely change the oil right away. You may have raw gas that entered the crank case diluting the oil.

#155 OFFLINE   AndyGJ

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:52 AM

07SGT - Thanks for the tip...I didn't realize that could be an issue.

I did change the oil about 50 miles worth of use BEFORE I had the tuning changes done...do you think that would still be a potential problem? Is there any way to easily check the oil without completely draining the system?

I just put Royal Purple in for the first time, and I'd hate to flush all that if its not necessary...

Thanks,
Andy.

Edited by AndyGJ, 25 February 2013 - 08:53 AM.

Present Mustang:
2008 Shelby GT Convertible #1676

Mods Installed:
BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 Tires (275/40/R18 Front & Rear)
CDC Sequential Tail Lights
FRPP GT500KR Axleback Mufflers
FRPP GT500KR 18" Rims
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Boss 302 Low Expansion Brakelines
Hawk HPS Brake Pads (front & rear)
JBA Tuned Length Ceramic Shorty Headers
LD's Performance Custom Tuning (91 & 93 Octane) w/SCT-X3 Tuner
Redline Hood Struts (w/update kit)
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5w20

Royal Purple Differential Gear Lub

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid
Shelby Lower Radiator Grill Insert - Black
Shelby 4.6L Valve Covers
Shelby GT Berg Snake Faux Gas Cap
Shelby GT Berg Snake Front Floor Mats & Trunk Mat
Shelby Plain Rear Seat Floor Mats
Shelby Billet Engine Cap Set
Shelby Billet Fusebox Cover
Shelby Transmission Cooler Scoop
Shelby Front Brake Duct Cooling Kit

Shelby Fays2 Watts Link
Performance Brake Slotted & Cross Drilled Rotors (front & rear)
Ford Motorcraft DOT4 Brake Fluid
Steeda CAI Intake Elbow w/Black Tube
Steeda Motor Mounts (red inserts)
Steeda Under Drive Pulley

Prior Mustangs:

1968 Mustang Coupe - Midnight Blue
1966 Mustang Convertible 289v2 - Red w/black top & interior (still in the family)
1973 Mustang Convertible 351W - Poppy Red w/black top & interior - MCA Senior Division Grand National Retired Winner
1989 Mustang Hatchback 5.0 w/5spd - 25th Anniversary - Red w/red & black interior


#156 OFFLINE   ilmor

ilmor

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:24 AM

Never heard of this issue before...gas in oil if running rich, however in that event it would seem the the amount of fuel would be minimal and would evaporate rather quickly??
2007 Shelby GT CSM# 07SGT1917 - the "Garage Queen"

Performance White, Hurst 5-Speed, Premium Package



Shelby 4.6L Racing Valve Covers ,Shelby Turbo Mufflers, Shelby GT Brake Duct Kit, "S" snake faux gas cap, Carroll Shelby autographed dash, Improved Shelby GT hood scoop replaced by Tasca Mod Shop, Craig's Custom License Plate Bracket, Baer GT Rotors, Hawk HP Plus Pads, Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Hi Temp Brake Fluid, J&M Street/Race Extreme Joint Lower Control Arms, J&M Double Adjustable Panhard Rod (Street/Race) ...



2013 Mustang GT Premium - the "Daily Driver"

Black / Black & Glass Roof, 6-Speed SelectShift, Sync, NAV, Interior Upgrade.....


#157 OFFLINE   07SGT

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

The gas will dilute the oil if the mixture was set to extremely rich. I/we do not know just how rich Andy's SGT was set due to that canned tune. If it was extremely rich I would change the oil. Yes it is expensive to change Royal Purple but cheaper than engine wear and engine failure. If I remember correctly you suffered an extreme loss of mileage (MPG) which brought this issue to your attention. Is that correct?

Edited by 07SGT, 25 February 2013 - 05:51 PM.


#158 OFFLINE   AndyGJ

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:09 PM

Yes...Strong exhaust fumes and mileage indicator dropped by about 20% on MPG readings.

Personally, I don't think it was the Steeda canned tune, but more the lack of any fine tuning when the UDP and JBA shorty headers were added by the other shop. I asked Larry Day (LD's Performance) when he did the tune if he noticed anything different or unusual in the tune set up that would cause the MPG issues, but he said that when he builds the tunes from the ground up, he does not jump off their parameters. He writes from scratch the settings in the tuner for each tune without looking to what settings were previously used by the canned set up.

I may call Larry Day and go over this with him to see if he thinks that it was running rich enough for me to be concerned about changing the oil at this point. If he can't tell enough either way to say for sure, well....then the oil will get changed just to be safe!

I'll post up what Larry's comments may be on this one since he saw the car and also changed the V.V.T. sensor gasket/gromet on the driver's side valve cover on the same day.

Andy.

Present Mustang:
2008 Shelby GT Convertible #1676

Mods Installed:
BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 Tires (275/40/R18 Front & Rear)
CDC Sequential Tail Lights
FRPP GT500KR Axleback Mufflers
FRPP GT500KR 18" Rims
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Boss 302 Low Expansion Brakelines
Hawk HPS Brake Pads (front & rear)
JBA Tuned Length Ceramic Shorty Headers
LD's Performance Custom Tuning (91 & 93 Octane) w/SCT-X3 Tuner
Redline Hood Struts (w/update kit)
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5w20

Royal Purple Differential Gear Lub

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid
Shelby Lower Radiator Grill Insert - Black
Shelby 4.6L Valve Covers
Shelby GT Berg Snake Faux Gas Cap
Shelby GT Berg Snake Front Floor Mats & Trunk Mat
Shelby Plain Rear Seat Floor Mats
Shelby Billet Engine Cap Set
Shelby Billet Fusebox Cover
Shelby Transmission Cooler Scoop
Shelby Front Brake Duct Cooling Kit

Shelby Fays2 Watts Link
Performance Brake Slotted & Cross Drilled Rotors (front & rear)
Ford Motorcraft DOT4 Brake Fluid
Steeda CAI Intake Elbow w/Black Tube
Steeda Motor Mounts (red inserts)
Steeda Under Drive Pulley

Prior Mustangs:

1968 Mustang Coupe - Midnight Blue
1966 Mustang Convertible 289v2 - Red w/black top & interior (still in the family)
1973 Mustang Convertible 351W - Poppy Red w/black top & interior - MCA Senior Division Grand National Retired Winner
1989 Mustang Hatchback 5.0 w/5spd - 25th Anniversary - Red w/red & black interior


#159 OFFLINE   07SGT

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:25 AM

Andy, just curious, would you change the oil right away if you only had the Motorcraft synthetic blend in the crank case? So is the price of the oil the only reason not to change?

Edited by 07SGT, 27 February 2013 - 06:26 AM.


#160 OFFLINE   07SGT

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:11 PM

Andy, below are reasons to change the oil immediately:

http://en.wikipedia....nkcase_dilution


http://www.lubeng.co...Degradation.pdf



and:


EFFECT OF FUEL ADULTERATION ON ENGINE CRANKCASE DILUTION
Md. Ehsan1,*, Md. Mahmudur Rahman2 and Md. Hasan Saadi3
1Department of Mechanical Engineering,
Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology (BUET), Dhaka-1000
2Department of Textile Engineering, South East University, Dhaka, 3Graduate Engineer, Dhaka
*Corresponding email: ehsan@me.buet.ac.bd
Abstract: Excessive crankcase dilution of lubricating oil in petrol driven vehicles across Dhaka city have been
reported recently. A field survey revealed that, gradual increase in the volume of lubricating oil was
experienced irrespective of vehicle model, vehicle age and brand of lubricating oil used. The problem was found
to originate from adulteration of fuel, probably with the intention of gaining undue financial benefits, stimulated
by the high fuel price. Samples were collected from fuel stations across Dhaka and compared with base fuels
collected from Eastern Refinery. Investigation of fuel properties like – density, distillation curve and visual
colour indicated that, condensates from gas fields in around 15% by volume is being mixed with petrol for
adulteration. Heavier components of the condensate is causing high rate of crankcase dilution of the lubricating
oil in engines. Such dilution is reducing viscosity of the lubricating oil significantly, which may lead to high rate
of engine wear and poor performance.
Key Words: Crankcase Dilution, Fuel Adulteration, Distillation Curve, Fuel Density, Fuel Viscosity.
INTRODUCTION
Crankcase dilution is a phenomenon experienced
in engines where accumulation of unburned gasoline
in the crankcase takes place. An excessively rich fuel
mixture or poor combustion allows a certain amount
of gasoline to pass down between the pistons and
cylinder walls and dilute the engine oil [1]. Some of
the combustion gases may pass across the piston ring
reaching the crankcase, termed as “Blow-by”. When
a mixture of air and fuel enters the cylinder of an
engine, it is possible for condensation of fuel to
occur on the cooler parts of the cylinders. The
condensate may wash the lubricating oil from the
cylinder walls, travel past the piston rings and collect
in the oil pan, thus diluting the lubricating oil,
increasing volume and decreasing its viscosity. As a
result this can lead to increased wear of engine
components. Since the less volatile components of
the fuel will have the greatest tendency to condense
the degree of crankcase-oil dilution is directly related
to the end volatility temperatures of the mixture.
Crankcase dilution to a limited extent is allowed for
an engine long in service. Typically this is less than
5% of the lubricating oil volume for an internal
combustion engine before oil replacement is needed
[2,3]. On the other hand, some consumption of
lubricating oil is common during engine blow-by, but
its amount is very small as long as the engine
components like piston rings or valve guides do not
wear out. The rate of oil consumption depends upon
the quality and viscosity of the oil in the crankcase,
the engine speed, the temperature and the amount of
dilution and oxidization in the crankcase. Typically,
lubricating oil consumption of about 1 liter per
thousand kilometer vehicle run, requires a piston ring
replacements in automotive engines [2].

In the recent years an unusual phenomenon have
been widely experienced regarding the lubricating oil
in spark ignition automotive engines, used in
vehicles around Dhaka city, the capital of
Bangladesh. After use for some period, an unusually
large increase of volume of the lubricating oil have
been experienced. The crankcase oil becomes diluted
due to the mixing of less viscous gasoline
components, its volume increases and viscosity
decreases. This would increase component wear and
hamper engine performance. The objective of this
technical investigation was to – assess the extent of
the problem, quantify the level of volume increase
and to identify the cause of the phenomenon.
EXTENET OF THE PROBLEM
First in order to verify the claim and to assess
the extent of the problem a field survey was carried
out around different parts of Dhaka city. A
specifically designed questioner was used for
collecting information regarding the problem. The
survey questioner included a number of queries
regarding - the extent of the problem experienced,
type and age of the vehicle engine, type of fuel used,
type of fuel system and type of lubricating oil used.
Altogether 73 sets of information was collected from
the major stakeholders – which included 41 vehicle
drivers, 18 auto repair mechanics, 5 lubricating oil
vendors and 9 car diagnostic centers.
A number of findings were revealed from the
analysis of information collected from the field
survey:
�� More than 80% of the drivers and almost all the
mechanics had experience of the problem and
Effect of Fuel Adulteration on Engine Crankcase Dilution
Journal of Mechanical Engineering, Vol. ME 41, No. 2, December 2010
Transaction of the Mech. Eng. Div., The Institution of Engineers, Bangladesh
115
most of them have noticed this in the last couple
of years.
�� The problem was almost entirely present in
petrol driven vehicles only and rarely noticed by
drivers using diesel fuel and CNG fuel only.
�� The problem was present across a range of
engine models produced by a number of
different auto manufacturers.
�� The problem was experienced both in new and
used vehicles.
�� Among the petrol driven engines it was present
in both types – using carburetor and using
electronic fuel injection systems.
�� The problem was present in vehicles using a
number of different brands of lubricating oils,
which are commonly used in Bangladesh.
At the time of the survey the price of fuels per
liter was – Octane TK. 67, Petrol TK. 65, Diesel TK.
40 (1 US$ = 70TK., Taka, Bangladesh currency).
Presently these are - Octane TK. 77, Petrol TK. 74
and Diesel TK. 44. In order to make a quantitative
assessment two petrol driven vehicles were
monitored in the transport pool of the university
(BUET). The lubricating oil capacities of their 1500
cc. engines were around 3.5 liters. After driving
about 1400 km the lubricating oil volume increased
by about half a liter in both of the vehicles, which is
about 15% increase in volume. The viscosity of the
lubricating oil (SAE 20W50) measured at room
temperature (30°C) using a Saybolt’s Universal
Viscosimeter, was found to reduced significantly.
The contaminated lubricating oil collected from the
vehicles monitored showed a drop of viscosity from
about 170 cSt (centistokes) at fresh condition, to less
than 90 cSt, after 1400 km of vehicle run.
PROBABLE REASONS OF EXCESSIVE
CRANKCASE DILUTION
Crankcase dilution to a limited extend, is
typically experienced in any internal combustion
engine. Low volatility components present in the
fuel often are slow to vaporize after injection/intake
into the cylinder. Some of these low volatility
compounds and water formed during combustion can
be condensed or deposited on the relatively cooler
parts of the combustion chamber and cylinder wall.
They can be absorbed or mixed with lubricating oil
film and swept down into the crankcase by the
normal scraping action of the piston's oil control
rings. Some may be transferred to the crankcase
with blow-by gases as shown in figure-1. The key
feature of crankcase dilution is whether the amount is
significant enough to cause any deterioration in the
lubricant's performance. With most of the standard
lubricating oils normal crankcase dilution creates
only very small change in lubricant volume within
their recommended replacement period [1,2].
Figure 1. Crankcase dilution inside the engine
Figure 2. Location of fuel collections across Dhaka
The lubricating oil, the fuel and the engine
hardware are the three components that may play a
vital role in such increase in crankcase dilution.
During the survey it was revealed that fuel
dispensers, lubricating oil vendors and vehicle
dealers each claimed to be confident regarding their
products and pointed to others for the situation.
There could be three main reasons for the unusual
increase of volume of lubricating oil used in a petrol
engine :
�� The lubricating oil may be going through some
undesired progressive chemical changes causing
increase of its volume.
�� Fuel may have been leaking or mixing in the
lubrication system due to some mechanical
malfunction or fault in the engine system.
Effect of Fuel Adulteration on Engine Crankcase Dilution
Journal of Mechanical Engineering, Vol. ME 41, No. 2, December 2010
Transaction of the Mech. Eng. Div., The Institution of Engineers, Bangladesh
116
�� The proportion of low volatile components of
the fuel may have been increased by
contamination or adulteration causing excessive
crankcase dilution.
The survey revealed that the problem of large
increase of lubricating oil volume had been
experienced in engines using different brands of
lubricating oils. So it is very unlikely that lubricating
oils of a number of different brands would
experience similar chemical changes, eliminating the
first reason. The survey also revealed that the
problem was experienced in engine models made by
different manufacturers and it existed both in new
and used engines. It was experienced by engines
having a carburetor as well as those with electronic
fuel injection. Since engines of different age, model
and fuel technology all are experiencing the problem,
it is very unlikely that it is sourced from the engine
hardware, eliminating the second reason. Moreover
the problem was not reported by drivers using diesel
or only compressed natural gas (CNG) as fuel. Since
all engines experiencing the problem are using the
petrol or octane fuel available in Dhaka city, the third
reason seems to be most likely to be responsible for
large increase in volume of the lubricating oil used.
Hence the focus of the investigation was
concentrated on possible fuel adulterations. Although
less common in the developed world, the effect of
fuel adulteration on engine performance have been
studied experimentally [4,5] and statistically [6]
resulting poor engine exhaust emission [7,8] in a
number of places.
PHYSICAL QUALITY OF FUEL AVAILABLE
IN DHAKA
Some properties of petrol and octane fuel
available in Dhaka were investigated to assess the
degree of contamination or adulteration of fuel, if
any. The physical appearance and colour of the fuel
was visually observed, the density was measured and
distillation characteristic of the fuel samples were
studied.
Fuel samples were collected from 14 different
fuel stations within a span of several days. Figure 2
shows the distribution of these petrol stations across
Dhaka city. Samples of Petrol (Octane Number,
ON=88) and Octane (ON=95) fuels were also
collected directly from Eastern Refinery Limited
(ER) Chittagong, the only oil refinery of Bangladesh
and this was considered as the base fuel (reference)
for comparing the properties of fuel collected from
the petrol pumps of Dhaka city. In addition fuel
depots at Naryangang were visited and the marketprice
of several potential contaminants was studied.
The prices per liter during the survey were reported
to be – Petrol TK.65, Octane TK.67, Kerosene
TK.45, Diesel TK.40, Condensate from gas-fields
TK.26, Thinner (spirit) used in painting TK. 80.
Physical Appearance of Fuel Samples
Figure 3(a). Colour comparison of petrol samples,
arrow sizes indicate colour darkness.
Figure 3( B). Colour comparison of octane samples,
arrow sizes indicate colour darkness.
The variation in physical appearance (colour)
was readily visible among samples collected from
different petrol pumps. Apparently this is more
prominent in petrol sample compared to octane
samples collected. Figure 3(a) and 3( B) exhibits the
colour differences, indicating fuel adulteration. The
arrow sizes beneath indicates colour darkness of
samples. In Bangladesh the government regulation
requires a colouring scheme for fuels - petrol is made
yellow, octane is orange, diesel is orange-brown and
kerosene is blue.
Density of Fuel Samples
The densities of all fuel samples were measured
at 20°C. The values were compared to the density of
sample of base fuels collected from Eastern Refinery
(ER). The density of ER petrol was measured to be
about 722 kg/m3 (g/cc) and 744 kg/m3 for ER
Octane. The petrol samples collected from Dhaka
Effect of Fuel Adulteration on Engine Crankcase Dilution
Journal of Mechanical Engineering, Vol. ME 41, No. 2, December 2010
Transaction of the Mech. Eng. Div., The Institution of Engineers, Bangladesh
117
ranged from 726.2 to 747.1 kg/m3. However the
Octane samples ranged from 741.4 to 756.5 kg/m3.
The sample identification numbers as show in figure
4 are indicative only. Densities of few other fuels
were also measured. Figure 5 shows the comparative
densities of different fuels. The consistent higher
densities of petrol indicated addition of heavier
compounds with the fuel.
690
700
710
720
730
740
750
760
770
1 2 3 4 5 6 ER
Petrol Samples Collected
Density kg/m3
Figure 4(a). Comparison of densities of
Petrol samples.
690
700
710
720
730
740
750
760
770
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ER
Octane Samples Collected
Density kg/m3
Figure 4( B). Comparison of densities of
Octane samples
660
680
700
720
740
760
780
800
820
840
860
Diesel Petrol (ER) Octane (ER) Condensate
(Titas)
Kerosene
Density, kg/m3
Figure 5. Comparison of densities measured of
different types of colour coded fuels.
Distillation Curve of Fuel Samples
Distillation is the process of heating a liquid
until it boils, capturing and cooling the resultant hot
vapors, and collecting the condensed vapors.
Distillation is a powerful tool, boiling point of a
compound can be determined by distillation as it is a
well-defined criteria. Thus it is one of the important
physical properties of a compound by which it can be
identified. Petrol is a complex mixture of large
number of components which boil over a range of
temperatures as shown in table-1[9]. The distillation
properties of petrol are determined using a standard
laboratory test like ASTM-D86. The results can then
be plotted to produce a distillation curve as in the
typical example shown in figure 6. The results can
also be expressed as the percentage of the fuel
volume evaporated at a specific temperature. The key
characteristics of distillation properties of petrol are
described by the percentage of fuel volume
evaporated at 70, 100, 150ºC, and its final boiling
point (FBP).
Figure 6. Typical distillation curve for gasoline.
Figure 7. Distillation-Unit used, DU-4 Professional
Table-1: Boiling range of some typical refinery
products.
A manually operated D86-78 Distillation Unit (DU-
4), with condenser tube to the right (figure -7)
composed of an electric heating assembly (with a
maximum test temperature up to 400°C) and a
cooling bath. The DU-4 consists of a stainless steel
cabinet with an inspection window, flask support
(adjustable in height) equipped with ceramic heating
Product °C °F
Motor Gasoline 30 – 200 80 – 400
Kerosene 140 - 260 280 – 500
Diesel Fuel (#2) 180 - 340 350 – 650
Lube Oils 340 - 540 650 - 1000
Effect of Fuel Adulteration on Engine Crankcase Dilution
Journal of Mechanical Engineering, Vol. ME 41, No. 2, December 2010
Transaction of the Mech. Eng. Div., The Institution of Engineers, Bangladesh
118
plate carrying 4 encased and gold plated heater rods.
Lower part of the heating assembly had an electronic
heater module using which heating energy could be
adjusted up to 800 watts. The DU-4 is ideal for the
examination of motor gasoline, aviation gasoline,
aviation turbine fuel, special boiling point spirits,
naphtha, white spirit, kerosene, gas oil, distillate fuel
oil and similar petroleum products.
0
50
100
150
200
250
300
0 20 40 60 80 100
% Volume of Vapor
Temperature, °C
Sample - 1
Sample - 2
Sample - 3
Sample - 4
Sample - 5
Estern Refinery
Figure 8(a). Distillation curve of Petrol samples.
0
50
100
150
200
250
300
0 20 40 60 80 100
% Volume of Vapor
Temperature, °C
Sample - 1
Sample - 2
Sample - 3
Sample - 4
Estern Refinery
Figure 8( B). Distillation curve of Octane samples.
Figure 8(a) shows the comparison of distillation
curves of several petrol samples collected with
respect to the base fuel (ER). In all of the samples
the distillation curves were recorded to be at higher
temperatures (increase of 25-35°C) compared to the
base fuel, clearly indicating the presence of
components of lower volatility. As shown in figure
8( B) the rise is also present in some of the octane
samples but as a whole the trend could not be
generalized. This indicates greater degree of
adulteration of petrol probably is happening
compared to octane, this may be related to the fact
that far more commercial vehicles are run on petrol.
The high price of gasoline may have triggered
the increase in fuel adulteration. Analysis of the
market price of a number of available compounds
indicated the high possibility of condensate from gas
fields, which are available at a much lower cost may
have been used in fuel adulteration. Figure 9(a)
shows the distillation curve of base petrol and base
octane and the relative position of measured curves
of – Natural Gas Condensate (Titas), Kerosene and
Diesel. Artificial mixtures of gas-field condensate
with base fuel were made at various proportions (5-
20% v/v) and their densities and distillation
characteristics were investigated. Figure 9( B) shows
the comparison of the distillation curves of base
petrol, base octane (ER), Titas condensate and an
artificial mixture of 15% condensate with base
petrol. As shown in figure 9( B) the distillation curve
of the mixture lies very close to the average trend of
distillation curves measured from collected petrol
samples from different places of Dhaka city. The
density of condensate was 819 kg/m3 and the 15%
mixture was 736 kg/m3, very similar to the average
(736.7 kg/m3) of the density range of petrol samples
collected.
0
50
100
150
200
250
300
350
400
0 20 40 60 80 100
% Volume of Vapor
Temperature, °C
DIESEL CONDENSATE
PETROL (ER) OCTANE (ER)
KEROSINE
Figure 9(a). Distillation curve of different
fuels samples.
0
50
100
150
200
250
300
0 20 40 60 80 100
% Volume of Vapor
Temperature, °C
CONDENSATE
PETROL (ER)
OCTANE (ER)
15% CONDENSATE
Figure 9( B). Distillation curve of 15% Condensate
by volume with Petrol.
DISCUSSION OF RESULTS
Study of visual colour strongly indicated
possible adulteration of petrol fuel samples. The
density measurements in most cases were higher than
the base fuels for petrol, but densities varied through
a range for octane. This indicated the presence of
components of higher densities being mixed and the
fact that the degree of adulteration probably differs
from pump station to pump stations in Dhaka. The
presence of heavier hydrocarbons in the fuel shifted
Effect of Fuel Adulteration on Engine Crankcase Dilution
Journal of Mechanical Engineering, Vol. ME 41, No. 2, December 2010
Transaction of the Mech. Eng. Div., The Institution of Engineers, Bangladesh
119
the distillation characteristics, especially the tail-end
volatility of the fuel towards higher temperature.
The rise of the distillation curves are very
conclusive of mixing of fluids of lower volatility in
case of petrol samples. Addition of less volatile
liquids shifts the distillation curve higher in
temperature scale, causing some of these components
to remain liquid inside the combustion chamber
during combustion, which gradually dilutes the
lubricating oil, causing this high rate of crankcase
dilution. In case of octane samples there is
indication of adulteration in some samples, but not
sufficient to draw any conclusion regarding a
generalized trend. It could be mentioned here that
most of commercial vehicles are run on petrol, rather
than Octane. It is very difficult to positively identify
which fluid or fluids have been used for adulteration
of petrol. Hence the possibility of using a number of
prospective liquids for fuel adulteration was
anaylsed.
Visually petrol is available coloured in yellow,
diesel is orange-brown, kerosene is blue. So mixing
one in other would cause a definite trend of color
change. Diesel is close in colour but it has much
higher distillation temperatures compared to petrol.
Adulteration using Diesel would generally result in a
higher effect in distillation curve than that
experienced from the samples. Mixing diesel in small
proportion would not give the lucrative economic
benefit. Kerosene is also relatively costly and it
would require additional de-colouration to achieve
visual similarity. Thinner (spirit) is much more
expensive and not easily available in large bulks.
However since condensate is not recognized as an
end-user fuel, is not artificially colour coded and is
almost colourless. This makes it easer to mix with
petrol or octane. The absence of coding colour,
relatively lower cost and bulk availability makes it
the strongest candidate for petrol adulteration.
Looking at the potential fluids - that can be
mixed with petrol, the level of rise in the distillation
curve experienced and very importantly their relative
cost, condensates collected from gas fields or
pipelines some how available in the market seems to
be a very likely candidate. To verify such a
possibility a range of artificial mixtures (5-20% of
condensate by volume) of natural gas field
condensates and base petrol were tested. Out of these
the distillation curve of the mixture containing 15%
condensate by volume with base petrol showed close
similarity with the mean characteristics of distillation
curves of collected samples.
The density of the mixture of 15% condensate
by volume with base petrol was found to be 736
kg/m3, very similar to the collected average density
(736.7 kg/m3) of petrol samples. As shown in figure
8(a) and 9( B) the distillation curve of the mixture lies
in a region centrally to distillation curves measured
from collected petrol samples from different places
of Dhaka city. The similar density, distillation
characteristics and financial factor very strongly
indicates to adulteration of petrol using gas-field
distillates, which have been supported by some
information gathered during the field-survey.
However detailed chemical or Photo-thermal analysis
[5] of the fuel samples and contaminated lubricant
could be more confirmatory but those were beyond
the scope of this investigation.
The physical properties of the mixture indicated
very high possibility of condensates being mixed in
the order of 15-20% by volume for petrol fuel
adulteration. This could be giving some financial
benefit (in the order of Taka 6 per liter of petrol) to
certain quarters, but as a result causing excessive
crankcase dilution and deterioration of lubrication
performance and hence compromising the engine
life. The contaminated lubricating oil collected from
the vehicles monitored in BUET measured at room
temperature showed a drop of viscosity from about
170 cSt at fresh condition, to less than 90 cSt, over
1400 km of vehicle run, which is really concerning if
it remains unattended by vehicle driver.
CONCLUSIONS
The problem of excessive crankcase dilution is
widely present in the petrol driven vehicles across
Dhaka city, irrespective of - vehicle make, model or
age and brand of lubricating oil used. This was
reflected in a field survey. The source of the problem
lies in adulteration of fuel used, associated with the
intention of acquiring undue financial benefits,
stimulated by the high fuel price. Among the possible
liquids mixed with petrol, condensates collected from
natural gas-fields and transmission pipelines is the
most likely candidate. Fuel samples were collected
across Dhaka City and compared with base fuels
collected from Eastern refinery. Investigation of
some fuel properties like – visual colour, density and
distillation curves indicated that, condensates around
15% by volume are being mixed with petrol for
adulteration. Heavier components of the condensate
is causing high rate of crankcase dilution of the
lubricating oil in engines run on petrol. Such dilution
is increasing volume and reducing viscosity of the
lubricating oil significantly, which may lead to high
rate of engine wear and poor performance.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
The authors would like to acknowledge the
support of the faculty and laboratory staff of
Department of Petroleum and Mineral Resources
Engineering (PMRE) of BUET, for allowing the use
of distillation apparatus in their laboratory and
supplying some gas-field condensate samples. The
authors would like to acknowledge the support of the
authority of Eastern Refinery Limited, Chittagong,
for supplying samples which were used as base fuels
for the analysis.
Effect of Fuel Adulteration on Engine Crankcase Dilution
Journal of Mechanical Engineering, Vol. ME 41, No. 2, December 2010
Transaction of the Mech. Eng. Div., The Institution of Engineers, Bangladesh
120
REFERENCES
[1] Obert Edward F., “Internal Combustion Engines
and Air Pollution”, Harper and Row Publishers,
ISBN No. 0-352-04560-0.
[2] “Motor Oil Degradation”, Technical Article No.
68, Publication of Lubrication Engineers, Lubrication
Engineers Inc., Texas USA 2006.
[3] Margaroni, D., 1999, “Extended Drain Intervals
for Crankcase Lubricants”, Journal of Industrial
Lubrication and Tribology, Volume 51, Issue 2, pp
69 -76.
[4] Bahari, M. S., Criddle, J. W. and Thomas, D.
R., G., 2007, “Study of the Determination of the
Adulteration of Petrol with Kerosene using Fuel Cell
Based Equipment”, Paper No. AN9921700701,
Proceedings of the Royal society of Chemistry, pp.
701- 706.
[5] Lima J. A. P., Massunaga, M. S. O. and Vargas,
H., Miranda L. C. M., 2004, “Photothermal
Detection of Adulterants in Automotive Fuels”,
Journal of Analytical chemistry, vol. 76, no. 1, pp.
114 -119.
[6] Wiedemann, L. S. M., d'Avila L. A. and
Azevedo., D. A., 2005, “Adulteration Detection of
Brazilian Gasoline Samples by Statistical Analysis”,
Fuel, Volume 84, Issue 4, March 2005, Pages 467-
473.
[7] Ale. B. B., 2003, “Fuel Adulteration and
Tailpipe Emissions”, Journal of the Institute of
Engineering, Nepal, Vol. 3, No. 1, December 2003,
pp. 12 – 16.
[8] Bovel G., 2004, “Manila Policy Dialogue on
Environment and Transport in the Asian Region”,
Policy Report, Session 4 : Cleaner Fuels for Vehicles
United Nations University, Institute of Advanced
Studies, Manila, December 2003.
[9] Heywood, J. B., “Internal Combustion Engine
Fundamentals”, McGraw-Hill International
Publishers, ISBN 0-07-100499-8, 1988.








Fuel Dilution- Ambient temperatures, air-fuel ratios, fuel volatility and mechanical conditions of the engine are factures that directly influence the amount of crankcase oil dilution. Low temperature operation and worn cylinder bores and rings will also produce a high amount of dilution.
Five or six percent fuel dilution in a gasoline engine’s crankcase oil, is the maximum that should be allowed. This will reduce the SAE grade of the crankcase oil by one number. With improper engine operation, it is possible to dilute the crankcase oil sufficiently so that there may be metal-to-metal contact in the bearings. Excessive dilution in the crankcase should never be disregarded, as it means that something is wrong, either with the engine or with the manner in which it is being operated.

Edited by 07SGT, 27 February 2013 - 05:25 PM.


#161 OFFLINE   07SGT

07SGT

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

#162 OFFLINE   AndyGJ

AndyGJ

    SGT Owner

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  • Region:South Atlantic

Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

If it was Motorcraft oil versus Royal Purple, I'd still change either one if it appears that running too rich could have caused an oil issue...I guess my point was that I just paid to have the oil changed with a quality oil and I hate to waste the money if the risk was relatively minor.

Also, I had never heard of this issue, so I was in unfamiliar territory and was asking mainly for more details and suggestions to help me evaluate how much potential I have of greater contamination than normal. In the end, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so once I get back from our short trip, I'll just get the oil changed simply for peace of mind.

Thanks for all the info and the lesson.

Andy.

Present Mustang:
2008 Shelby GT Convertible #1676

Mods Installed:
BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 Tires (275/40/R18 Front & Rear)
CDC Sequential Tail Lights
FRPP GT500KR Axleback Mufflers
FRPP GT500KR 18" Rims
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Boss 302 Low Expansion Brakelines
Hawk HPS Brake Pads (front & rear)
JBA Tuned Length Ceramic Shorty Headers
LD's Performance Custom Tuning (91 & 93 Octane) w/SCT-X3 Tuner
Redline Hood Struts (w/update kit)
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5w20

Royal Purple Differential Gear Lub

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid
Shelby Lower Radiator Grill Insert - Black
Shelby 4.6L Valve Covers
Shelby GT Berg Snake Faux Gas Cap
Shelby GT Berg Snake Front Floor Mats & Trunk Mat
Shelby Plain Rear Seat Floor Mats
Shelby Billet Engine Cap Set
Shelby Billet Fusebox Cover
Shelby Transmission Cooler Scoop
Shelby Front Brake Duct Cooling Kit

Shelby Fays2 Watts Link
Performance Brake Slotted & Cross Drilled Rotors (front & rear)
Ford Motorcraft DOT4 Brake Fluid
Steeda CAI Intake Elbow w/Black Tube
Steeda Motor Mounts (red inserts)
Steeda Under Drive Pulley

Prior Mustangs:

1968 Mustang Coupe - Midnight Blue
1966 Mustang Convertible 289v2 - Red w/black top & interior (still in the family)
1973 Mustang Convertible 351W - Poppy Red w/black top & interior - MCA Senior Division Grand National Retired Winner
1989 Mustang Hatchback 5.0 w/5spd - 25th Anniversary - Red w/red & black interior


#163 OFFLINE   07SGT

07SGT

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:30 AM

Don't think of it as being taught a lesson. Just think of it as a lot of us on this site have a lot of experience and we are willing to share so as to help others. When in doubt change. I am sure there are others, including yourself, that are willing to help when you can. That is what it is all about.



I noticed you are very willing to help by apprising others what you have learned about the results of your mods including the UD pulleys, the Steeda tune, and others. Personally I look forward to seeing the dyno test in the near future. Keep up the good work.

Thank you!

Edited by 07SGT, 28 February 2013 - 06:32 AM.


#164 OFFLINE   andrewnagle1964

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

Well, I finally have an appointment with Pro-Dyno in Fort Mill SC for 10 days from now (Wednesday the 27th)

I will post the dyno graph once I get home, I am sure it will be an all day adventure 8 am appointment with over a 2 drive in front of me.

Going to have 2 tunes a N2O and non N2O, finally bought a SCT tuner so I can swap them at will. Been driving around on a N20 tune for 18 months.

Current performance mods

FRPP Stuff
M-6009-A463 Aluminator Forged Internals 9.8:1 compression ratio
M-9424-463V Intake Manifold
M-6050-463P CNC Heads
M-6550-3V Hot Rod High Lift Cams
M-9926-3V Throttle Body
M-4209-G410 4.10 Gears
M-12405-3V12 0 degree Spark plugs

American Racing Long Tube Headers 1 3/4” Hi-Flow cats and X pipe

Bosch 39lb Fuel Injectors

Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump 40 Amp

PA Performance 6G Alternator 130 AMP Powder Coated White

Triangle Speed Shop Billet Gear Oil Pump
Steeda Carbon Fiber Intake Elbow
Fore Precision High Flow Fuel Rails Black Billet Aluminum

Edited by andrewnagle1964, 18 March 2013 - 03:27 PM.

The Black 07SGT4986 (RIP April14, 2010) to the White 07SGT4623......thanks for the grace of God no one died.

#165 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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  • Region:Southern Plains

Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:02 PM

Ooooo! Goody-goody!

I'll guess 370-375hp. Assuming ~12% loss that's ~425-430 at the crank.

Edited by EL SHELBY, 18 March 2013 - 05:15 PM.

08SGT0343 Fueled with CS branded pixie dust ground from the asphault of the Mausaon Straight and defeated Ferrari's.
Posted Image

#166 OFFLINE   svttim

svttim

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

Hey guys, I run a 4.6 based engine in my race car, Its NA by rule. The original motor had long tubes, Stage 3 heads, HR cams and FR intake. It made right around 360 at the wheels. I have since went to a 4.6 based 5 liter and she hust got off the dyno this week. It pulled 403 at the wheels. These engines can go a long ways NA. By the way, either engine was very tame at idle. The first engine was sold to a guy who put it in he GT. He could not have been happier.

One thing I have to say. A tuner that can adjust while tuning is a much better choice in IMHO. And that is just my opinion. BTW, both engines would run on 91
2008 GT500KR
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USAF Retired
Minuteman ICBM's

#167 OFFLINE   AndyGJ

AndyGJ

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

Hey guys, I run a 4.6 based engine in my race car, Its NA by rule. The original motor had long tubes, Stage 3 heads, HR cams and FR intake. It made right around 360 at the wheels. I have since went to a 4.6 based 5 liter and she hust got off the dyno this week. It pulled 403 at the wheels. These engines can go a long ways NA. By the way, either engine was very tame at idle. The first engine was sold to a guy who put it in he GT. He could not have been happier.

One thing I have to say. A tuner that can adjust while tuning is a much better choice in IMHO. And that is just my opinion. BTW, both engines would run on 91


svttim,

One set-up that I was considering (and would like to get input on) would be to add the FRPP Stage 1 Heads and the FRPP Intake. This may sound crazy (so don't throw me under the bus here), but I was going to leave off the FRPP Hot Rod Cams for now. If that gets me to 400+ HP on a N/A motor and a tame sounding machine, then I would be happy. Of course, I'm still going to add the 3.73 gears as well.

I know the HR Cams would really add a lot to it, but I'm just worried about the roughness it would bring to the idle with the Steeda motor mounts.

Any thoughts??

Andy.

Present Mustang:
2008 Shelby GT Convertible #1676

Mods Installed:
BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 Tires (275/40/R18 Front & Rear)
CDC Sequential Tail Lights
FRPP GT500KR Axleback Mufflers
FRPP GT500KR 18" Rims
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Boss 302 Low Expansion Brakelines
Hawk HPS Brake Pads (front & rear)
JBA Tuned Length Ceramic Shorty Headers
LD's Performance Custom Tuning (91 & 93 Octane) w/SCT-X3 Tuner
Redline Hood Struts (w/update kit)
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5w20

Royal Purple Differential Gear Lub

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid
Shelby Lower Radiator Grill Insert - Black
Shelby 4.6L Valve Covers
Shelby GT Berg Snake Faux Gas Cap
Shelby GT Berg Snake Front Floor Mats & Trunk Mat
Shelby Plain Rear Seat Floor Mats
Shelby Billet Engine Cap Set
Shelby Billet Fusebox Cover
Shelby Transmission Cooler Scoop
Shelby Front Brake Duct Cooling Kit

Shelby Fays2 Watts Link
Performance Brake Slotted & Cross Drilled Rotors (front & rear)
Ford Motorcraft DOT4 Brake Fluid
Steeda CAI Intake Elbow w/Black Tube
Steeda Motor Mounts (red inserts)
Steeda Under Drive Pulley

Prior Mustangs:

1968 Mustang Coupe - Midnight Blue
1966 Mustang Convertible 289v2 - Red w/black top & interior (still in the family)
1973 Mustang Convertible 351W - Poppy Red w/black top & interior - MCA Senior Division Grand National Retired Winner
1989 Mustang Hatchback 5.0 w/5spd - 25th Anniversary - Red w/red & black interior


#168 OFFLINE   JT93

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:09 PM

svttim,

One set-up that I was considering (and would like to get input on) would be to add the FRPP Stage 1 Heads and the FRPP Intake. This may sound crazy (so don't throw me under the bus here), but I was going to leave off the FRPP Hot Rod Cams for now. If that gets me to 400+ HP on a N/A motor and a tame sounding machine, then I would be happy. Of course, I'm still going to add the 3.73 gears as well.

I know the HR Cams would really add a lot to it, but I'm just worried about the roughness it would bring to the idle with the Steeda motor mounts.

Any thoughts??

Andy.


I don't think it would be too bad. I thought my car rumbled a lot when I put the cam in, but now I don't even notice it. I'm sure at first it would seem rough and make you unhappy, but a good tune and some time with it would take care of the problem.

mw2paq.jpg

Whatever the competition comes out with, we'll kick the hell out of 'em. - Carroll Shelby
 

Carroll Shelby Signed Airbag Cover
Great Lakes Region Windshield Banner
Sequential Tail Lights

Boss 302 Rear Seat Delete
Corbeau TRS Seats
Corbeau Racing Harnesses
Shelby Harness Bar
Shelby Harness Pads
SVT Rims for the track
Boss 302 Rims for the street
FRPP Hot Rod Cams
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Intake Manifold
FRPP Black Cam Covers

FRPP 3.73:1 Gearset

FR500S Differential

FRPP Hubs w/ ARP Studs
Brembo Brake Upgrade
FRPP Brake Cooling Kit

Shaftmasters Driveshaft
Dynatech Long Tubes w/ High Flow Cats
MRT Muffler Delete

Tow Hook with Custom Bracket
Tuned by Paul's High Performance


#169 OFFLINE   07SGT

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:16 PM

El Shelby, I had my calculator out and I think you are right on.

#170 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:02 AM

I'm very interested in doing the same with my SGT. Just don't have the cash for all of it at once. My plan is to build the foundation before building power.

1. 4:10 Gears, Lwr & Upr Controls, relocation brackets.
2. 110mm Intake, Long/mid length headers (American Racing or Kooks)
3. 62mm Throttlebody (Ford Racing or L&M)
4. Cams (Hotrod or Detroit Rocker)
5. Ford Racing Manifold
6. One piece driveshaft.

Going with gears and headers 1st should mitigate the torque loss from the cams and manifold later.

This is all assuming I don't change my mind and send my SGT to Vegas for an SC.

The SGT will be paid off in ~12 months so things should get exciting shortly after.
08SGT0343 Fueled with CS branded pixie dust ground from the asphault of the Mausaon Straight and defeated Ferrari's.
Posted Image

#171 OFFLINE   svttim

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:38 AM

svttim,

One set-up that I was considering (and would like to get input on) would be to add the FRPP Stage 1 Heads and the FRPP Intake. This may sound crazy (so don't throw me under the bus here), but I was going to leave off the FRPP Hot Rod Cams for now. If that gets me to 400+ HP on a N/A motor and a tame sounding machine, then I would be happy. Of course, I'm still going to add the 3.73 gears as well.

I know the HR Cams would really add a lot to it, but I'm just worried about the roughness it would bring to the idle with the Steeda motor mounts.

Any thoughts??

Andy.


I did not find the cams objectionable at all. but, you can add them later. Youll just have to pay for them later if you decide to go with it. Keep in mind, the engine is a system from the CAI to the exhaust tip. More air in on one end needs to be moved through the system on the other end. A restriction in the system will limit the entire system and once that restriction is removed, there is usually another restriction thats surfaces until you get to the point where you remove them all and start loosing torque. Without a dyno session, I am not sure how you verify the direction you have taken is really helping. Certainly Ford Racing can help you with some ideas or you can turn to someone like Rehagen Racing who has experience with the motors in several forms but, you still need to dyno the car. Data is king.

Let me through another wrench in the system, those that say tourqe is king on the street are correct but, that being said, torque is not the strong point of these engines. Gearing is the cure for a lot of its woes but not a cure all. My race car will run with cars with 200 more HP. Of course handling is the main reason but the other reason is the transmission. I run a Boss 302R Tremec. It keeps the engine in the power curve much better than what a 5 or another 6 speed transmission can. Not that I would suggest that particular transmission, you would be shifting a lot but, I think this is one area people forget to look at. Making power and keeping the car in the power band are separate issues.
2008 GT500KR
NASA Super Touring #16
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USAF Retired
Minuteman ICBM's

#172 OFFLINE   andrewnagle1964

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:27 AM

With the below mods (no N20)

356 rwhp
331 torque

Dan @ Pro-Dyno is the man! (Thanks to Craig G aka SGT/SC2873 for the recommendation)

Will post Dyno sheet once I get home

Not sure where we are headed with the nitrous but will keep everyone posted.

Andrew

Well, I finally have an appointment with Pro-Dyno in Fort Mill SC for 10 days from now (Wednesday the 27th)

I will post the dyno graph once I get home, I am sure it will be an all day adventure 8 am appointment with over a 2 drive in front of me.

Going to have 2 tunes a N2O and non N2O, finally bought a SCT tuner so I can swap them at will. Been driving around on a N20 tune for 18 months.

Current performance mods

FRPP Stuff
M-6009-A463 Aluminator Forged Internals 9.8:1 compression ratio
M-9424-463V Intake Manifold
M-6050-463P CNC Headsy
M-6550-3V Hot Rod High Lift Cams
M-9926-3V Throttle Body
M-4209-G410 4.10 Gears
M-12405-3V12 0 degree Spark plugs

American Racing Long Tube Headers 1 3/4 Hi-Flow cats and X pipe

Bosch 39lb Fuel Injectors

Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump 40 Amp

PA Performance 6G Alternator 130 AMP Powder Coated White

Triangle Speed Shop Billet Gear Oil Pump
Steeda Carbon Fiber Intake Elbow
Fore Precision High Flow Fuel Rails Black Billet Aluminum


Edited by andrewnagle1964, 27 March 2013 - 07:32 AM.

The Black 07SGT4986 (RIP April14, 2010) to the White 07SGT4623......thanks for the grace of God no one died.

#173 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:10 AM

Not as high as I was guessing but still very nice numbers. Again, assuming 12% loss thats just a hair over 400hp on the motor. I'm curious how much the heads contributed to the number.

How many miles do you have on the new motor?
08SGT0343 Fueled with CS branded pixie dust ground from the asphault of the Mausaon Straight and defeated Ferrari's.
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#174 OFFLINE   andrewnagle1964

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:18 PM

Not as high as I was guessing but still very nice numbers. Again, assuming 12% loss thats just a hair over 400hp on the motor. I'm curious how much the heads contributed to the number.

How many miles do you have on the new motor?


Probably 5,000 on the new motor.

I was pleased as punch with the tuning Dan did.

Andrew
The Black 07SGT4986 (RIP April14, 2010) to the White 07SGT4623......thanks for the grace of God no one died.

#175 OFFLINE   EL SHELBY

EL SHELBY

    EL SHELBY

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  • Region:Southern Plains

Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

5k, you are just broken in. Not that you need it, but there may still be more power in it as motor seasons.
08SGT0343 Fueled with CS branded pixie dust ground from the asphault of the Mausaon Straight and defeated Ferrari's.
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#176 OFFLINE   AndyGJ

AndyGJ

    SGT Owner

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:41 PM

Probably 5,000 on the new motor.

I was pleased as punch with the tuning Dan did.

Andrew

 

 

Andrew,

 

Any updates on your motor since last Dyno numbers?  I'm on hold for any more motor upgrades for now with my dream build, but I did just order the SPP Watts link for the car....that Track Weekend is coming back up in January, so I went for better handling for now.

 

Andy.


Edited by AndyGJ, 29 October 2013 - 07:43 PM.

Present Mustang:
2008 Shelby GT Convertible #1676

Mods Installed:
BF Goodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 Tires (275/40/R18 Front & Rear)
CDC Sequential Tail Lights
FRPP GT500KR Axleback Mufflers
FRPP GT500KR 18" Rims
FRPP 62mm Throttle Body
FRPP Boss 302 Low Expansion Brakelines
Hawk HPS Brake Pads (front & rear)
JBA Tuned Length Ceramic Shorty Headers
LD's Performance Custom Tuning (91 & 93 Octane) w/SCT-X3 Tuner
Redline Hood Struts (w/update kit)
Royal Purple Synthetic Oil 5w20

Royal Purple Differential Gear Lub

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid
Shelby Lower Radiator Grill Insert - Black
Shelby 4.6L Valve Covers
Shelby GT Berg Snake Faux Gas Cap
Shelby GT Berg Snake Front Floor Mats & Trunk Mat
Shelby Plain Rear Seat Floor Mats
Shelby Billet Engine Cap Set
Shelby Billet Fusebox Cover
Shelby Transmission Cooler Scoop
Shelby Front Brake Duct Cooling Kit

Shelby Fays2 Watts Link
Performance Brake Slotted & Cross Drilled Rotors (front & rear)
Ford Motorcraft DOT4 Brake Fluid
Steeda CAI Intake Elbow w/Black Tube
Steeda Motor Mounts (red inserts)
Steeda Under Drive Pulley

Prior Mustangs:

1968 Mustang Coupe - Midnight Blue
1966 Mustang Convertible 289v2 - Red w/black top & interior (still in the family)
1973 Mustang Convertible 351W - Poppy Red w/black top & interior - MCA Senior Division Grand National Retired Winner
1989 Mustang Hatchback 5.0 w/5spd - 25th Anniversary - Red w/red & black interior


#177 OFFLINE   andrewnagle1964

andrewnagle1964

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  • Region:South Atlantic

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:24 PM

Andrew,
 
Any updates on your motor since last Dyno numbers?  I'm on hold for any more motor upgrades for now with my dream build, but I did just order the SPP Watts link for the car....that Track Weekend is coming back up in January, so I went for better handling for now.
 
Andy.


Nothing new just driving it and loving it. Still need to head down to Pro-Dyno for the N20 tune but work and travel have kept me busy this summer/fall

Let me know how you like the watts link.

Andrew
The Black 07SGT4986 (RIP April14, 2010) to the White 07SGT4623......thanks for the grace of God no one died.




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