174 replies to this topic

[07SGT]

Did I understand correctly that your tuner/installer is offering to install LTs and a tune only for 3,200?  (3200 before I do the hot rod cams).  If I read that correctly that you are only receiving LTs and a tune for 3200 that sounds very expensive.

[AndyGJ]

Yes...that was for LTs, catted x-pipe, and tune for $3,200.  This is a different shop that does really good work from what I have heard (Young768 has used them for his needs) and yesterday was the first time that I had talked to them about what I was going to do with my original post's plan.

I thought that was a steep price....the first time I ever spoke to them about performance enhancements back in March or April, this was one of their main suggestions, and the price was in the same neighborhood.  I haven't ever double checked them for this mod against another shop, but I might talk to the tuner I have been recently dealing with for his pricing on a similar mod (as well as his thoughts for my car).

I was able to line up most of the funds to do this in short order - next 60 days - but I may have to do this slowly so I can feel what the results are each step of the way.

I probably should do 1) gears, 2) shorty headers, and 3) custom tune next as one step...see where that lands me.

Any thoughts?

Andy.

[AndyGJ]

2007tungstenGT500, on 07 November 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

i was looking to do what you are when i had my '06 mustang GT. contrary to what others have said, i say the intake and tune combo yields the most power, but with an SGT you already have that (albeit with a conservative FRPP tune). as others have noted you can also do ported heads, hotrod cams, headers, intake manifold, throttle body, underdrive pulleys and rear gears. my shorty headers were a waste of money. if you do headers, go long tube, but they will require a tune mod. my 3.73 rear gears were great. i think they are definitely worth the money (even if you have 3.55). the ratios seem perfectly suited to the 4.6 power band. i would ignore 4.10s as they rev the engine too high in all gears...bad for highway cruising, in my opinion. i have a magazine article that outlines exactly how to achieve what you are after. i will look for it when i get home.

I sure would be interested in what that article has to say if you get a chance to find it....I'm not sure if the LT's are within my budget but I'll have to check with another shop (see my prior post from yesterday).

Let me know if you are able to locate that article...PM me and I'll send you my email address if that is easier.

Thanks,
Andy.

[ARMORINE]

when my car was on the dyno she put down 325 rwtq on the dot.

[ARMORINE]

bar none the 4:10s and the mutha thumpr cams i have gave me the best performance. everything was done individually including the exhaust. i have a catless system so i have little backpressure., full JBA front to back with MASSIVE(for NA 4.6) 1 7/8 headers. going into 3 inch collectors. my car has little torque below 3000 rpm however at 3500 torque spikes nearly 80 pound feet and continues to climb rapidly. part of my lack of torque down low is how big my pipse are. i bought them because i plan on doing a high reving NA stroker build soon.

personaly i wouldnt use stainless works. theyr very expsenive and over kill for a NA car. the hp and torque difference between all the brands is VERY small. were talking less then 12 hp. honestly for the build id be looking at a cheaper brand like mac. they make good quality stufff for a great price. not to mention in the lt wars they come very lose to the same power as the stainless works.

i build my car for road racing so mid and high rpm power is all i care about. low end torque means nothing to me.

my advice on the install is find some one you can trust. long tube installs are pretty easy unless you get really big longtubes. worse come to worse you have to lift the motor up on each side by about an inch to slide them into place. can be done in your garage in less then 3 hours if your good. just dont get 1 7/8ths theyr over kill unless you plan on turning your motor into a high rpm screamer.

best advice i can offer you......order the parts yourself and bring them to who you want the work done by. they cant gouge you then. install should be around 500.

and 1 more thing. you really need tall gears for cams. so 3:73s minimum. i HIGHLY recommend 4:10's.

Edited by ARMORINE, 09 November 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[AndyGJ]

Well, I received the FRPP 62mm throttle body from www.BuyFordRacing.com on Friday, and I've ordered the new tune from Steeda for my SCT-X3.  I'll install the new unit when I get the new tune....the part looks awesome!!


I heard back from the tuner/installer I was looking to use...the cost of the shorty headers went from $600 for installation, up to $900 for the JBA shorty headers....hmmm.  Anyone know if any reason that he would justify $300 more / 50% labor hike?
I double checked my notes from 2 months ago when he told me the $600 price.


I also had that the other shop wanted $750 installation for the Long Tubes....and there is a ton more to do with the LTs installation wise from what I understand.  They also did an installation of FRPP shorties for a fellow TS member for $500....I may have to compete some of this project with them.

Any thoughts on the $900 installation price, other than run away from it?  I thought I should be able to get the parts AND installation for around $950-$1000.  Am I wrong?

thanks,
Andy.

Edited by AndyGJ, 12 November 2012 - 02:31 AM.

[JeffJ]

Wow, maybe you can find a TS member close to you that would help you out.  If you lived out here, I'd do it for free.  It really is not that much work if you have a lift.  Even if not, it's not to bad.  I did a set of shorties on my buddies '07 GT in about 2 1/2 hours (with my two post lift).  The Shelby X-pipe is easier to drop out then a GT.  Sure hate to see people gouged like that.  $750 for longtubes may not be that bad, but $900 for shorties is robbery.  I would never take it to a shop who quoted me that kind of price.  Good luck with your search!  Will keep watching.

[ARMORINE]

900 for shorties??? wth. shorties are easy as pie to install. my advice...run fast and run hard. 750 isnt bad for longtubes, not great but not bad.

[AndyGJ]

JeffJ, on 12 November 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Wow, maybe you can find a TS member close to you that would help you out.  If you lived out here, I'd do it for free.  It really is not that much work if you have a lift.  Even if not, it's not to bad.  I did a set of shorties on my buddies '07 GT in about 2 1/2 hours (with my two post lift).  The Shelby X-pipe is easier to drop out then a GT.  Sure hate to see people gouged like that.  $750 for longtubes may not be that bad, but $900 for shorties is robbery.  I would never take it to a shop who quoted me that kind of price.  Good luck with your search!  Will keep watching.

I don't have a lift, but I do have the home made wood ramps and a racing profile floor jack.  I've done several small mods, but I have not jumped on something like this one and would hate to mess something up.  I may call a couple of sources to see what it would take to do this at my house, but if I can get a reasonable price from someone who knows what they are doing, then I'd be more inclined to go that route to make sure it's done 100% correct.

I about to order an Adjustible Panhard Bar and Panhard Bar Brace to center the rear axle and add better bushings to the rear bars -- those I feel comfortable about doing myself (and maybe even get my sons involved so that they can start learning about these cars).

I'll post an update in the next day or so as I research my shorty header installation options.

Thanks for confirming what I was afraid of...

Andy.

[AndyGJ]

Quick question -

I'm looking at two different sets of Shorty Headers....

1) the BBK Ceramic Tuned Length Shorty Headers ($419), or
2) the JBA Cat4ward Shorty Headers ($456 stainless / $629 ceramic)

Should I prefer one over the other?  I've been told that the ceramics help keep engine heat down and one site says that it also helps slightly with performance with the scavaging effect....any truth to this?

Thanks,
Andy.

[avidShelby]

AndyGJ,

This article would appear to validate your decision to go with shorty, rather than LT headers.

Also, not sure you have to lower the engine to use the FRPP intake and a strut brace.  Others please chime in, but I think the FRPP "V6/Bullit" brace,

M-20201-F, will fit over the intake, w/o modifications...

[AndyGJ]

Thanks avidShelby!!

That article was good info.  I wish they would have shown a stock exhaust manifold dyno run to compare to they could show the actual gains from either upgrade...I'm sure it was a substantial change, but would be interested to see what the gains actually were.

Thanks,
Andy.

[07SGT]

The JBA's appear to be, and are advertised, as equal length.  That helps somewhat with the scavenging effect.

[Larry T]

Great article ... thanks for sharing !!!

[MyBlueHeaven]

Larry T, on 15 November 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Great article ... thanks for sharing !!!

I agree, too bad it's 12 yrs. old.  I'm sure with the advances in engines over the years it would be a diffferent outcome now.

[EL SHELBY]

MyBlueHeaven, on 16 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I agree, too bad it's 12 yrs. old.  I'm sure with the advances in engines over the years it would be a diffferent outcome now.

+1

Everything I've seen shows that shorties do not provide enough of a benefit to justify the cost. The stock manifolds pretty darn efficent. In fact, when the stock manifold is ported its as good or better than most shorties.

[SGT3477]

i  have been working through pretty much this exact same ideology. the 400HP SC kit is alot of money for only the 400HP. I hear many folks say with teh 550HP kits these 4.6s ar eliving on borrowed time.
So I too have been thinking more NA then SC and the mods are fairly straight forward.
although in the end the costs are near the same i think the longevity and daily fun of the car would be better served, long term, going NA.
adding the FRPP ( TB/ heads/ HR cams/ Intake and shorties/ ) AND the 4:10s is the answer. you will get all the performance, sound and feel you are probably looking for .
the loss in low end torque can be made up for with the higher gears: no?

this is my plan anyway.

[07SGT]

Yes the stock manifolds can be made more efficient through porting but there is another advantage to the Shortys..  Weight!!!!!!!!  Take that weight off the front end which will also effect handling.

[AndyGJ]

I know it is going to cost some coin to get these things done, but I'm doing these one step at a time or in small combinations...both from a cashflow stand point, but also from a performance review stand point.  I'd like to be able to comment on how each tweak to the car changes the performance, and then give a final review of the sum of all the parts.

If I wind up achieving the performance level that I want half way there, then I may stop and not add the final stages...or at least delay them for some time further down the road.  In the end, I know that these changes will have some positive impacts to the performance of my SGT.

On another note, does anyone have any performance reviews or preferences on the two different Shorty headers that I'm looking at?

1) BBK tuned length ceramic shorty headers   http://www.americanm...gt-ceramic.html
2) JBA cat4ward shorty headers   http://www.americanm...ers-0510gt.html

Let me know your thoughts...this is my next step that I'm looking to do in the next week or so.  Putting on the FRPP 62mm throttle body tomorrow as step one!

thanks,
Andy.

[avidShelby]

If anyone has a source of recent, empirical data detailing the efficacy of shorty versus long-tube headers, please post it.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I think we're all looking for validated information upon which to base a decision...