174 replies to this topic

[MyBlueHeaven]

AndyGJ, on 16 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

I know it is going to cost some coin to get these things done, but I'm doing these one step at a time or in small combinations...both from a cashflow stand point, but also from a performance review stand point.  I'd like to be able to comment on how each tweak to the car changes the performance, and then give a final review of the sum of all the parts.

If I wind up achieving the performance level that I want half way there, then I may stop and not add the final stages...or at least delay them for some time further down the road.  In the end, I know that these changes will have some positive impacts to the performance of my SGT.

On another note, does anyone have any performance reviews or preferences on the two different Shorty headers that I'm looking at?

1) BBK tuned length ceramic shorty headers   http://www.americanm...gt-ceramic.html
2) JBA cat4ward shorty headers   http://www.americanm...ers-0510gt.html

Let me know your thoughts...this is my next step that I'm looking to do in the next week or so.  Putting on the FRPP 62mm throttle body tomorrow as step one!

thanks,
Andy.

Andy, I know what you mean about one step at a time and the cash flow and perfomances in gradually. I like many others here have been doing the same thing. If you look at my sig I have many of the things that you speak of. I can confirm like those others that have done these mods that with the addition of the FRPP intake and cams you will lose some low end torque, I added the 4.10s and you would now never know.

Don’t let the number fool you I was on the fence about 3.73 / 4.10 and I am 100% glad that I did the 4.10s.  There is a slight rpm gain on the highway but not like you would think.  That was my major concern as well since I have to take mine on the highway daily.  A little mpg loss but it’s all about your driving style.  Go with the 4.10 during your performance upgrade journey, you won’t regret it.

My next step in the process will be long tube headers and an off road X in the coming weeks. After I add the LT’s the only thing more I can do is add new heads which is almost as costly as the Kenne bell that I want.   I thought this was an informative article and it's a little more recent

http://www.mustang50...rs/viewall.html

There have been nice performance gains with the addition of each mod, but I’m here to tell you your always going to want more, being satisfied halfway just isn’t going to happen.

You will definitely be happy that you are making these changes and improving the performance, I know I am and I love driving my car.  It sounds great, turns a lot of heads and performs much better now than it did when I got it.  Good luck with your build.

Jeff

[MyBlueHeaven]

avidShelby, on 16 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

If anyone has a source of recent, empirical data detailing the efficacy of shorty versus long-tube headers, please post it.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I think we're all looking for validated information upon which to base a decision...

I validate it by asking how many people do you see running shorties vs LTs on the track/strip.  Next time your at the track take a poll.  If shorties were so much better you would see the perfomance cars running them instead of LT's.   I just don't see it, don't get me wrong I'm no expert but I've been working on cars for a long time and it just doesn't add up.

[07SGT]

I think everyone agrees that LTs provide more power, and sound, than shortys.  But some also live where there is EPA testing and must be concerned about the O sensor, etc.  The shortys bolt right to the original exhaust system and will not effect emissions.  That, and price, are the only advantages to shortys.

[AndyGJ]

MyBlueHeaven, on 16 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Andy, I know what you mean about one step at a time and the cash flow and perfomances in gradually. I like many others here have been doing the same thing. If you look at my sig I have many of the things that you speak of. I can confirm like those others that have done these mods that with the addition of the FRPP intake and cams you will lose some low end torque, I added the 4.10s and you would now never know.

Don’t let the number fool you I was on the fence about 3.73 / 4.10 and I am 100% glad that I did the 4.10s.  There is a slight rpm gain on the highway but not like you would think.  That was my major concern as well since I have to take mine on the highway daily.  A little mpg loss but it’s all about your driving style.  Go with the 4.10 during your performance upgrade journey, you won’t regret it.

My next step in the process will be long tube headers and an off road X in the coming weeks. After I add the LT’s the only thing more I can do is add new heads which is almost as costly as the Kenne bell that I want.   I thought this was an informative article and it's a little more recent

http://www.mustang50...rs/viewall.html

There have been nice performance gains with the addition of each mod, but I’m here to tell you your always going to want more, being satisfied halfway just isn’t going to happen.

You will definitely be happy that you are making these changes and improving the performance, I know I am and I love driving my car.  It sounds great, turns a lot of heads and performs much better now than it did when I got it.  Good luck with your build.

Jeff

Hey Jeff -

Thanks for that article....great info.  I liked how the JBAs helped out on the low end as well.

Part of my problem is that I'm capped at the total I can spend on this upgrade project.  The price for parts and labor for LTs just about ate my entire budget, and I'm also concerned about how much louder it may make the car sound in my neighborhood.

Right now it looks like you have everything on my dream mod list except for headers.  Given you have the stock exhaust manifolds, do you have any ideas on what kind of HP and TQ you are putting down now?  At the end of the day, I'm going to have to stick with the shorty headers and hope for modest performance improvements over the stock manifolds...can you give me any additional notes on how much different your car feels now than when it was totally stock?  Low RPM range performance?  Mid range performance? Upper range performance?  What is your RPM limit set to and what range do you normally shift to the next gear?

It's funny, but I think my install process will actually be the reverse of the way you went....I'm not sure how I came up with this method, but I'll let you know how I feel about the progress.

One final question - did you do anything about replacing your strut tower brace?  I really want to maintain that piece since this is a convertible.

Thanks
Andy.

[MyBlueHeaven]

AndyGJ, on 17 November 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

Hey Jeff -

Thanks for that article....great info.  I liked how the JBAs helped out on the low end as well.

Part of my problem is that I'm capped at the total I can spend on this upgrade project.  The price for parts and labor for LTs just about ate my entire budget, and I'm also concerned about how much louder it may make the car sound in my neighborhood.

Right now it looks like you have everything on my dream mod list except for headers.  Given you have the stock exhaust manifolds, do you have any ideas on what kind of HP and TQ you are putting down now?  At the end of the day, I'm going to have to stick with the shorty headers and hope for modest performance improvements over the stock manifolds...can you give me any additional notes on how much different your car feels now than when it was totally stock?  Low RPM range performance?  Mid range performance? Upper range performance?  What is your RPM limit set to and what range do you normally shift to the next gear?

It's funny, but I think my install process will actually be the reverse of the way you went....I'm not sure how I came up with this method, but I'll let you know how I feel about the progress.

One final question - did you do anything about replacing your strut tower brace?  I really want to maintain that piece since this is a convertible.

Thanks
Andy.

Andy,

I haven't had it on the Dyno in over a year now and I've added a few more parts since then.  But it was 302 @ the rear wheels last time and that was with a modest tune.  Since then I've added some more mods and the 4.10s for TQ.  After the long tube and O/R X install and a new tune I expect a pretty good gain and I'll try and get it on the Dyno after the new year.

I hear ya on the cost of labor.  That was one thing that I din't have to worry about much since I've done just about all the mods myself, or with the help of a friend who just happens to be a ford mechanic for the last 15 years.  I'll be doing the LT's myself as well.

We have emisions here in VA as well but they only look to see if the cats are there.  No computerized checking so it's a little easier to get a pass when you know someone since they don't have to put it on a machine.

I didn't like the original strut tower brace very much and I would have had to do the engine lower mounts to keep it so I decided to go with the V-6/bullit FRPP strut tower bar.  They come painted silver so I taped it off and painted it with some vista blue to give it the striped look.  I think it looks better personnaly.  I still have all the parts that came off so if need be I could always put them back on to sell but I really don't ever intend to do that.  I included some pics of the engine bay and if you want to see more I have a lot of pics in my profile of the mods in progress. Under my profile go to vehicle and click on the picture, from there you should see all the images.

good luck with the shorties,  I'm sure they will do you just fine for you.

Jeff

Sorry the pics are so small, can't seem to figure out how to make it bigger

Attached Files

•  Engine bay pic 1.jpg   6.45K   76 downloads
•  Engine bay pic 2.jpg   6.55K   67 downloads

Edited by MyBlueHeaven, 17 November 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[AndyGJ]

MyBlueHeaven, on 17 November 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

I didn't like the original strut tower brace very much and I would have had to do the engine lower mounts to keep it so I decided to go with the V-6/bullit FRPP strut tower bar.  They come painted silver so I taped it off and painted it with some vista blue to give it the striped look.  I think it looks better personnaly.  I still have all the parts that came off so if need be I could always put them back on to sell but I really don't ever intend to do that.  I included some pics of the engine bay and if you want to see more I have a lot of pics in my profile of the mods in progress. Under my profile go to vehicle and click on the picture, from there you should see all the images.


Jeff

Jeff,

Great to hear that the V6/FRPP brace will fit in place of the original brace.  I was looking to go the route of the 1/2 inch lower Steeda motor mounts.  I was told it is no extra labor to do this when doing the shorty headers since the mounts have to be loosened anyway.

Is there a big disadvantage to doing the motor mounts versus the V6 brace?
Is there an advantage to upgrading the motor mounts?  I thought that lowering the motor by 1/2 inch would also lower the front center of gravity and that might improve cornering, but I'm no expert on that and was just guessing that it may help slightly.

If it is better to go the V6 brace, I have no problem doing that as the parts are the same basic cost.

Any thoughts?

Andy.

Edited by AndyGJ, 18 November 2012 - 06:15 AM.

[AndyGJ]

Quick side note:

Just got to love my wife!!  Yesterday was my Birthday, and with all the kids sports activities and GA Tech college football game to attend yesterday, we just opened up my gifts this morning with the kids.

One box was so big that all she could use to wrap it up was a large trashbag.  When I opened up the bag and looked at the box, I immediately knew where it was from....addressed from Las Vegas, NV!!!  Open up the box and what do I find....
the Shelby GT Brake Cooling Duct kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like today is going to be a fun afternoon under the car!!

Andy.

[MyBlueHeaven]

AndyGJ, on 18 November 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

Quick side note:

Just got to love my wife!!  Yesterday was my Birthday, and with all the kids sports activities and GA Tech college football game to attend yesterday, we just opened up my gifts this morning with the kids.

One box was so big that all she could use to wrap it up was a large trashbag.  When I opened up the bag and looked at the box, I immediately knew where it was from....addressed from Las Vegas, NV!!!  Open up the box and what do I find....
the Shelby GT Brake Cooling Duct kit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like today is going to be a fun afternoon under the car!!

Andy.

Sweet,  have fun with the install, I'm hoping for mine to be in with the xmas gifts next month or possibly my birthday 3 days before xmas.

Edited by MyBlueHeaven, 18 November 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[AndyGJ]

Step 1 completed - Installed the FRPP 62mm Throttle Body and the upgraded tune from Steeda.

The install is super easy...the hardest part was that I didn't have a long 8mm socket, just a short one so I had to run to the store to pick one up to remove the two upper bolts/studs holding the top half of the TB to the intake manifold.  I hate those types of "middle of the project" interruptions, but thought I had that one covered.  Oh well...everything else was extremely smooth.

The throttle responds a lot quicker and seems to spool up the RPMs quicker - I guess that is the benefit of more fuel and more air with the larger 62mm size.  When I'm just coasting or slowing down in a gear and it approaches 1000 RPMs, I've noticed that the car still seems to want to hold the RPMs right at the 1000 mark, but if I push in on the clutch, it will drop back down to 700 ish range.

Other than that, seems to run nicely.  Since the weather is nice today in Atlanta, I went ahead and drove it to work today, so I'll get more time to play with it on the way home and see how it responds in the 65 degree temps when fully warmed up on a 20 minute drive.

Now, on to planning Step 2 - Shorty headers and Steeda Underdrive Pully.  Hope to get this done the first half of December.

Andy.

[2007_Shelby_GT]

You're on your way Andy!  (Oh, and Happy Birthday! )

Sam

[Jer]

AndyGJ, on 20 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Step 1 completed - Installed the FRPP 62mm Throttle Body and the upgraded tune from Steeda.

The install is super easy...the hardest part was that I didn't have a long 8mm socket, just a short one so I had to run to the store to pick one up to remove the two upper bolts/studs holding the top half of the TB to the intake manifold.  I hate those types of "middle of the project" interruptions, but thought I had that one covered.  Oh well...everything else was extremely smooth.

The throttle responds a lot quicker and seems to spool up the RPMs quicker - I guess that is the benefit of more fuel and more air with the larger 62mm size.  When I'm just coasting or slowing down in a gear and it approaches 1000 RPMs, I've noticed that the car still seems to want to hold the RPMs right at the 1000 mark, but if I push in on the clutch, it will drop back down to 700 ish range.

Other than that, seems to run nicely.  Since the weather is nice today in Atlanta, I went ahead and drove it to work today, so I'll get more time to play with it on the way home and see how it responds in the 65 degree temps when fully warmed up on a 20 minute drive.

Now, on to planning Step 2 - Shorty headers and Steeda Underdrive Pully.  Hope to get this done the first half of December.

Andy.

I tell my wife: "People buy tools when they come across a job that needs them". That's why I have SO many funky wrenches, socket extensions, etc...
This is also why it's important to have a "parts chaser": a second car that you leave BONE STOCK, to get to the tool store!

BTW, underdrive pulleys are a nice mod. I was very happy with the results I got from my Steeda set back in the day.


Jer

Edited by Jer, 26 November 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[JeffIsHereToo]

I was going to this using this set-up:

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

$$$$ but I thought it provided the best long term engine life and reliability.

Good luck!

[andrewnagle1964]

JeffIsHereToo, on 27 November 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

I was going to this using this set-up:

http://www.fordracin.../m-fr4-s197.htm

$$$$ but I thought it provided the best long term engine life and reliability.

Good luck!

This is the route I took and shy of a SC I couldn't be happier

Andrew

[twobjshelbys]

Cool!  So now we know there is a path to your goal!!!!

[07SGT]

any chance of a dyno run before and after the next steps to measure the differences?

[AndyGJ]

07SGT, on 27 November 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

any chance of a dyno run before and after the next steps to measure the differences?

I was thinking the same thing...would be nice to have a before and after look.  I've been going back and forth between two potential installers/tuners in my local area.  I've been trying to get the best advice and best installation price I can each step of the way.  If I had the tools and know how...heck, I'd buy the tools if I had the know how...to do most of this stuff, then I'd give it a try, but I'm a little to worried about really screwing something up.

Anyway, I spoke today to a guy by the name of Eric who actually is the tuner since his main pricing person (shop manager?), Ryan, is on vacation this week.  I think this is the route I'm heading for Step #2 - JBA Ceramic Shorty Headers and Steeda Under Drive Pulley with Labor and Dyno tune (Step #1 was simply installing the FRPP 62mm TB & updated Steeda tune).  He said the dyno tune was $150, so I may see if he could do a pre-install dyno run for a minor (if anything) charge just to get that baseline number of RWHP & RWTQ.  I'd pay $50-$75 just to know even though it is a waste of $$$.

ONE QUESTION FOR EVERYONE - If I do the Steeda "Red" Motor mounts in Step #2 so that the FRPP Intake manifold will clear the strut tower brace, Eric said he will install the motor mounts at no additional labor cost since it is just one more bolt on each side to remove while doing the headers.  HOWEVER, Eric cautioned me that I will feel a noticable amount of NVH in the car after they are installed in place of the Ford factory mounts.  If I wait and decide to do this later, it will cost an additional $230 (+/-) in labor to do it.  The cost of the parts (Steeda UDP $220, JBA ceramic headers $630, Misc bolts & gaskets $100), all Labor ($856), and dyno ($150) is running about $1,960 and Steeda Motor Mounts would push it to approx. $2,170.

So here is my QUESTION: Does anyone have the Steeda Motor Mounts installed to where they could tell me if I would love or hate the results?

Thanks,
Andy.

Edited by AndyGJ, 27 November 2012 - 09:52 PM.

[2007_Shelby_GT]

Andy - Will the V6/Bullitt strut brace clear the Ford Racing manifold?  (I went this route for S/C clearance) I don't know if this will save you money, but it might save the NVH issue you're concerned about!

I'd also be wondering about drive-train geometry if you use the lower motor mounts, (drive shaft / pinion angles, etc.).  Wonder if it would matter, since it's such a small amount?

Sam

(PS: got your text messages - I was out of touch yesterday!)

[ARMORINE]

do the motor mounts. i didnt notice any increase in nvh and im running the hardest motor mounts i could find

[AndyGJ]

2007_Shelby_GT, on 28 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Andy - Will the V6/Bullitt strut brace clear the Ford Racing manifold?  (I went this route for S/C clearance) I don't know if this will save you money, but it might save the NVH issue you're concerned about!

I'd also be wondering about drive-train geometry if you use the lower motor mounts, (drive shaft / pinion angles, etc.).  Wonder if it would matter, since it's such a small amount?

Sam

(PS: got your text messages - I was out of touch yesterday!)

Hey Sam,

I've been told that the V6 strut tower brace does clear the FRPP intake manifold, and that is an option but the cost is essentially the same for either the V6 brace or the motor mounts.  I didn't know if there is a better benefit to having the lower motor mounts over the V6 brace, but I thought that the engine weight lowered by 1/2 an inch would potentially help the handling with a lower center of gravity.

I'm an not an engineer, so I'm not sure if that is correct or not.  When it was brought up about the extra NVH that I would experience, I thought I'd better get some opinions on what to expect from the TS members before I jumped one way or the other.  I hate to waste $230 in labor if I delay and do it later, but I'll need to decide in short order if I'm going to get this in the line-up for completion by the middle of December.

Andy.

[ilmor]

I also did the U/D pullies - nice mod; quicker revving.