[chuckstang]

I really want to install a Saleen Watts link when I do my suspension coming up but I don't think I will be able to afford my original plan (FRPP Dampers and Saleen Watts link)
Bonus was not as large this year.

So which would be more beneficial and what would you buy?

Im going to lower with FRPP springs, Steeda heavy duty upper strut mounts, Evo ultimate suspension (I think)

My mods so far is just Evo Stage 1 with SGT mufflers


What will be more beneficial for the street, adjustable dampers like the FRPP which are about $800 or the Saleen Watts link which is avaialbe from JDM for $1000 so about the same price.


Or should I wait until I can do both along with my other suspension mods I listed.

thanks in advance

[brands5.0]

Tokico D-spec Get my vote my buddy has them on his gt500 and loves them as soon as i replace mine thats what will go on my car
http://www.stangsusp...p?idproduct=794

[GT500Tow]

Chuck i think you should buy the Biggest rear wing you can find and two Huge fart cans.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

GT500Tow, on Mar 12 2008, 12:37 PM, said:

Chuck i think you should buy the Biggest rear wing you can find and two Huge fart cans.

ROTFLMAO

And don't forget the Big Rubberband & the Wind-Up key too

Sorry, Chuck, I want to add more, but I would more then likely get thrown out of here if I do.

Just buy the Watts link & call it quits until later, that way we hear alot less complaining when you can't get the car set up correctly after you install the springs/struts or at the correct ride height w/o messing with the pinion angle & span wrenches.

This post has been edited by ColdwaterHotrod: 12 March 2008 - 08:51 AM

[chuckstang]

Well, Evo will be doing the work so I shouldn't have to worry about the install and setting up pinion angle

I think Evo is more than qualified

[MMcGuirk]

chuckstang, on Mar 12 2008, 08:08 AM, said:

I really want to install a Saleen Watts link when I do my suspension coming up but I don't think I will be able to afford my original plan (FRPP Dampers and Saleen Watts link)
Bonus was not as large this year.

So which would be more beneficial and what would you buy?

Im going to lower with FRPP springs, Steeda heavy duty upper strut mounts, Evo ultimate suspension (I think)

My mods so far is just Evo Stage 1 with SGT mufflers


What will be more beneficial for the street, adjustable dampers like the FRPP which are about $800 or the Saleen Watts link which is avaialbe from JDM for $1000 so about the same price.


Or should I wait until I can do both along with my other suspension mods I listed.

thanks in advance

I have the Fay's 2 Watt's Link and Tokico D Spec adjustables. Total parts cost $1150.00. Worth every penny, transformed my S197 into an M3!
The ride and handling are phenomenal.

Fay's 2 install is much simpler that the Saleens. Fay's 2 has a sub-frame that replaces the Panhard bar and brace. With the Saleen you have the Watt's pivot point tied to the differential cover.

Michael

[ColdwaterHotrod]

chuckstang, on Mar 12 2008, 01:19 PM, said:

Well, Evo will be doing the work so I shouldn't have to worry about the install and setting up pinion angle

I think Evo is more than qualified

Yes EVO is more then qualifyed, but you din't say EVO was going to do the install. Installation is extra

I guess you need to ask yourself (or everyone else) which is more important to you? each has there own advantages. Struts only (no springs) will give a better ride & improve handling some what, a Saleen Watts link will make your car corner better, helps the rear end handle bumps better, keeps the rearend true & straight at all times with no kick out (or fish tailing) under acceleration, and will give you an IRS feel at times. IMO I would go with the Saleen watts link 1st & then after you drive it awhile then go with lowering springs & struts.

This post has been edited by ColdwaterHotrod: 12 March 2008 - 11:28 AM

[chuckstang]

ColdwaterHotrod, on Mar 12 2008, 02:26 PM, said:

Yes EVO is more then qualifyed, but you din't say EVO was going to do the install. Installation is extra

I guess you need to ask yourself (or everyone else) which is more important to you? each has there own advantages. Struts only (no springs) will give a better ride & improve handling some what, a Saleen Watts link will make your car corner better, helps the rear end handle bumps better, keeps the rearend true & straight at all times with no kick out (or fish tailing) under acceleration, and will give you an IRS feel at times. IMO I would go with the Saleen watts link 1st & then after you drive it awhile then go with lowering springs & struts.

Well, sorry if I made it confusing, I am going to lower the car for sure, that is a definite and control arms as well per Freds recommendation.
The only question as far as money goes in my head is, should I stick with the stock shocks and go with the Saleen Watts link or use that money to buy aftermarket shocks and just go the cheaper route of an adjustable panhard?

Also, I did like the Fays2 best but Fred recommends the Saleen and well, I know it attaches to the diff but really, it comes on many Saleen Mustangs from the factory with warranty's just like our car, so I doubt there will be any leaking issues. (they did on the early ones but have fixed that apparently)

[Justin00Stang]

i'll let you know how the watts link works for me in a few weeks when i put it in

the saleen piece kill's several birds with one stone, replaces PHB with better side to side axle location, comes with LCAs, and has a cast alum diff cover to beef up the rear end

[SGT2666]

chuckstang, on Mar 12 2008, 01:27 PM, said:

Well, sorry if I made it confusing, I am going to lower the car for sure, that is a definite and control arms as well per Freds recommendation.
The only question as far as money goes in my head is, should I stick with the stock shocks and go with the Saleen Watts link or use that money to buy aftermarket shocks and just go the cheaper route of an adjustable panhard?

Also, I did like the Fays2 best but Fred recommends the Saleen and well, I know it attaches to the diff but really, it comes on many Saleen Mustangs from the factory with warranty's just like our car, so I doubt there will be any leaking issues. (they did on the early ones but have fixed that apparently)

I'm running the Fays2 and I'm quite happy with it although I do think the Saleen set up is a very sanitary solution. It came down to cash for me and the Fays2 is more then capable enough for the street and I can buy the D specs with the money I save at least thats my logic.

[2112]

How about this logic; The Watt's link corrects a fundamental design shortcoming of having a solid axle whereas the adjustable shocks are a tuning aid for the suspension.

[68fastback]

chuckstang, on Mar 12 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

Well, sorry if I made it confusing, I am going to lower the car for sure, that is a definite and control arms as well per Freds recommendation.
The only question as far as money goes in my head is, should I stick with the stock shocks and go with the Saleen Watts link or use that money to buy aftermarket shocks and just go the cheaper route of an adjustable panhard?

Also, I did like the Fays2 best but Fred recommends the Saleen and well, I know it attaches to the diff but really, it comes on many Saleen Mustangs from the factory with warranty's just like our car, so I doubt there will be any leaking issues. (they did on the early ones but have fixed that apparently)

I'd do the Watts first, Chuck... my logic is there's no throw-away if you do the shocks later. If you do the shocks first with the adj panhard, it will get tossed later when you do the Watts (you *will* eventually do both ). I like the design of the Saleen too Just a thought...

[Son of GT]

Watts link. And the Saleen Watts link is a good choice. I have one on the SGT and it's fantastic. No more "skuttle bump" (that's what I call the ass end jump) driving over expansion joints and/or washboard asphault when your in a turn, and the car's ass end is MUCH more controlled drifting into a turn.

BUT having said that, it is my understanding that SAI is in the early stages of adding a Watts link to their parts line up, but when it will finally be available for purchase is unknown at this time.

[68fastback]

Son of GT, on Mar 13 2008, 01:05 AM, said:

Watts link. And the Saleen Watts link is a good choice. I have one on the SGT and it's fantastic. No more "skuttle bump" (that's what I call the ass end jump) driving over expansion joints and/or washboard asphault when your in a turn, and the car's ass end is MUCH more controlled drifting into a turn.

BUT having said that, it is my understanding that SAI is in the early stages of adding a Watts link to their parts line up, but when it will finally be available for purchase is unknown at this time.

Read somewhere SAI was looking at the Fays2 (but I do like the Saleen design)

I can't help but wonder if they'll eventually offer the original CTM IRS that never made it into the original mustang and GT350. It was designed by Klaus Arning (Ford-AAI-Ralph Arning's dad), a Ford engineer who also worked with A/C and Shelby on the development of the original 427 Shelby Cobra in 1964. They're now making that original IRS again and I've read it comes in versions to fit early and S197s... pricey tho

...I noticed that the CTM website has undergone a major upgrade since I checked it out last summer -- who knows (<-- lol, love that smiley) maybe this piece will "catch-on" for the TransAm redux since Cammy and Chal will have native IRS ...and seems unlikely the 'stang could get a factory piece before spring 2011.

;-) Dan

[chuckstang]

Justin- Are you sure it comes with LCAs?
Both the pix off Evos site and JDM do not appear to show this

Also, I think I am really just going with the Saleen over the Fays2 because I really think it is a slap in the face to go to a highly qualified installer and tell them, I don't agree with you, please install this one instead, when they have just told you it is inferior.
At some point you have to trust the people actually working on your car.

So in conclusion, I am going to try and do both, the $995 Saleen Watts link and the cheaper ($500) Tokico Dspecs on top of the FRPP lowring springs and heavy duty strut mounts and control arms.
I was originally going to do the FRPP dampers and the FRPP sway bars but I should save plenty of money by using the much cheaper Dspecs and forgetting about the sway bars.
I think the Watts link will make a much, much greater difference!

PS- I think SAI will be using the Fays2 Watts, this was the gist I got after visiting Tasca, they install it on their cars they work on and love it.

This post has been edited by chuckstang: 13 March 2008 - 06:43 AM

[MMcGuirk]

chuckstang, on Mar 13 2008, 07:42 AM, said:

Justin- Are you sure it comes with LCAs?
Both the pix off Evos site and JDM do not appear to show this

Also, I think I am really just going with the Saleen over the Fays2 because I really think it is a slap in the face to go to a highly qualified installer and tell them, I don't agree with you, please install this one instead, when they have just told you it is inferior.
At some point you have to trust the people actually working on your car.

So in conclusion, I am going to try and do both, the $995 Saleen Watts link and the cheaper ($500) Tokico Dspecs on top of the FRPP lowring springs and heavy duty strut mounts and control arms.
I was originally going to do the FRPP dampers and the FRPP sway bars but I should save plenty of money by using the much cheaper Dspecs and forgetting about the sway bars.
I think the Watts link will make a much, much greater difference!

PS- I think SAI will be using the Fays2 Watts, this was the gist I got after visiting Tasca, they install it on their cars they work on and love it.

Hi,

Keep in mind your installer is in the business of making a profit. There is no money to be made by selling Fay's 2. They do not offer consideration to the trade or any quantity discount. So you pay the same price as an individual buyer or if you are Stillen, SAI, Lethal, etc. Saleen does have a wholesales business and I imagine the margin on their Watt's link is probably in the 30 to 40% range.

That being said and in the spirit of offering my fellow Team Shelby members a completely unbiased opinion, I have installed both. There is no way I could agree with anyone that would state that the Fay's 2 is inferior. Both approaches accomplish the task. I prefer the Fay's 2 product because it absolutely strengthens the pivot point location with it's subframe. I much prefer this than having the pivot point bearing on the rear end cover. I am aware that Ford has used the Saleen design (or visa versa) on the Crown Vic cop car for years with out any issues, but that is a factory install and the location points are reinforced more substantially.

Good luck with your improvements, you will be very happy.

Michael

[mciarochi]

MMcGuirk, on Mar 12 2008, 01:29 PM, said:

I have the Fay's 2 Watt's Link and Tokico D Spec adjustables. Total parts cost $1150.00. Worth every penny, transformed my S197 into an M3!
The ride and handling are phenomenal.

Fay's 2 install is much simpler that the Saleens. Fay's 2 has a sub-frame that replaces the Panhard bar and brace. With the Saleen you have the Watt's pivot point tied to the differential cover.

Michael

Thanks. I was going to point that out, but I didn't want to start the Watts War in this thread, too. Here's a thread, there are interesting questions to ask either Fays or Saleen before you make a purchase...


http://forum.teamshe...p...st&p=363913

[ColdwaterHotrod]

back on Oct 6th, 2007 I created this thread about the Fay's Watts Link & what it can do for you.

Click on this link below to read about and see animation on how a rear Pan-hard bar works vs. a Fay's WATTS LINK. Also there is info on k-members, front ends & how lowering your car affects the geometry.

http://forum.teamshe...p...c=12289&hl=

http://www.miracerro..._suspension.htm

[svt boost]

does anyone have a pdf of the install instructions for the saleen watts link?

[chuckstang]

Thank you for those excellent links

I read and commented on many

It seems like its about split down the middle, Fays vs Saleen

Are there any other Watts link options for our car for about the same price point?


This may be or not not be a dumb question, but by installing the Saleen Watts, what is the worst case scenario that could happen and how would affect my warranty?

Thanks alot