[Boston Mike]

Did y'all see this blog posting regarding the KR hood??
http://www.autoblog....eb-outrage-eru/


Wanted to get some SS owners perspective on a part of this:
"The last thing we wanted was a V6 Mustang customer going over to his dealer, grabbing one of those KR carbon fiber hoods, and slapping it on his V6. To me, that's more of a disservice to our customers and brands – both SVT and Shelby. So that was our guiding principal, if you will... So when we set up the returns - the warranty and service parts return piece, we wanted to make sure we got those components back so that they were not on the aftermarket."

[Snake Handler]

Boston Mike, on Sep 12 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Did y'all see this blog posting regarding the KR hood??
http://www.autoblog....eb-outrage-eru/


Wanted to get some SS owners perspective on a part of this:
"The last thing we wanted was a V6 Mustang customer going over to his dealer, grabbing one of those KR carbon fiber hoods, and slapping it on his V6. To me, that's more of a disservice to our customers and brands – both SVT and Shelby. So that was our guiding principal, if you will... So when we set up the returns - the warranty and service parts return piece, we wanted to make sure we got those components back so that they were not on the aftermarket."

To steal a line from Animal Farm "Some animals are more equal than others"

[silver08elly]

Boston Mike, on Sep 12 2009, 05:02 AM, said:

Did y'all see this blog posting regarding the KR hood??
http://www.autoblog....eb-outrage-eru/


Wanted to get some SS owners perspective on a part of this:
"The last thing we wanted was a V6 Mustang customer going over to his dealer, grabbing one of those KR carbon fiber hoods, and slapping it on his V6. To me, that's more of a disservice to our customers and brands – both SVT and Shelby. So that was our guiding principal, if you will... So when we set up the returns - the warranty and service parts return piece, we wanted to make sure we got those components back so that they were not on the aftermarket."

Cant imagine how those gt500 owners feel about the company sellinig the body parts and havein those v6's slap the front fascia and hood and so on onto their cars and claiming they are shelbys.....O WAIT. THATS RIGHT. I DO KNOW. CUZ ITS FREAKING AGGRIVATING. So this is a pretty lame duck xcuse if you ask me.

[Robert M]

Boston Mike, on Sep 12 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Did y'all see this blog posting regarding the KR hood??
http://www.autoblog....eb-outrage-eru/


Wanted to get some SS owners perspective on a part of this:
"The last thing we wanted was a V6 Mustang customer going over to his dealer, grabbing one of those KR carbon fiber hoods, and slapping it on his V6. To me, that's more of a disservice to our customers and brands – both SVT and Shelby. So that was our guiding principal, if you will... So when we set up the returns - the warranty and service parts return piece, we wanted to make sure we got those components back so that they were not on the aftermarket."

From an SS owners point of view..................

Only the unknowing or low knowledge person will be fooled into thinking a hood, splitter, and the other bolt-ons/stick-ons make a car that was not originally a KR, suddenly a KR. Same with the Super Snake, same with the SVT Cobra R's, etc. Hoods, wheels and other stick-ons are only a portion of what makes each of these cars unique, only the people with lack of knowledge will be fooled, and these will not be the big $$$ buyers at sale time. I agree that there are items that need to be exclusive, so that "everything" is not available to none SS and KR owners. The Super Snake has it's items, the KR has it's items.

In the above paragrah I at first said, "only the fools will be fooled", but "people with lack of knowledge" sounds nicer.

This replacement parts issue is one more reason to add to my list of "why I spent $80K+ on 725h.p. instead of 540h.p." when the discussion comes up at the car shows.....................both being Shelby's, both being GT500's, each very different, both built side-by-side in the same shop, both modified/converted at SAI, both limited in number for their specific production year, and then the performance differences.............and then the mention of the 540h.p. 2010 GT500 and on and on.

R

This post has been edited by Robert M: 12 September 2009 - 02:49 PM

[knownukes]

Robert M, on Sep 12 2009, 05:26 PM, said:

From an SS owners point of view..................

Only the unknowing or low knowledge person will be fooled into thinking a hood, splitter, and the other bolt-ons/stick-ons make a car that was not originally a KR, suddenly a KR. Same with the Super Snake, same with the SVT Cobra R's, etc. Hoods, wheels and other stick-ons are only a portion of what makes each of these cars unique, only the people with lack of knowledge will be fooled, and these will not be the big $$$ buyers at sale time. I agree that there are items that need to be exclusive, so that "everything" is not available to none SS and KR owners. The Super Snake has it's items, the KR has it's items.

In the above paragrah I at first said, "only the fools will be fooled", but "people with lack of knowledge" sounds nicer.

This replacement parts issue is one more reason to add to my list of "why I spent $80K+ on 725h.p. instead of 540h.p." when the discussion comes up at the car shows.....................both being Shelby's, both being GT500's, each very different, both built side-by-side in the same shop, both modified/converted at SAI, both limited in number for their specific production year, and then the performance differences.............and then the mention of the 540h.p. 2010 GT500 and on and on.

R

+1 on the 725

[texaggie]

The collectivity/ exclusivity point is pretty weak. We see every day cars that there are Shelby clones from the '60s and '70s. People know how to spot them and then decide on what they are willing to buy or not buy. The value of the new cars is already dropping (as it should be expected to). The collection value will not be determined for a long time, and the hood will not be the deciding factor. It will be the provable history and VIN #. At some point a smart business person will get a hold of an actual KR hood and make exact replicas and make a killing in profits because the originators did not offer a product that people obviously wanted. As stated prior to this posting, all you have to do is look at all the GT500 body kits that are out.

As an aside, for the SS ownwers, how do you feel about not being offered the same carbon option if it is a better quality piece than a fiberglass one. I think that people (especially SS people) want a high quality light weight piece more than they want to create a clone. Also for the SS people, how does it feel to know that all the corporate heads feel it is ok to make an SS clone, but not a KR one?

This post has been edited by texaggie: 14 September 2009 - 12:17 PM

[Boston Mike]

texaggie, on Sep 14 2009, 03:16 PM, said:

The collectivity/ exclusivity point is pretty weak. We see every day cars that there are Shelby clones from the '60s and '70s. People know how to spot them and then decide on what they are willing to buy or not buy. The value of the new cars is already dropping (as it should be expected to). The collection value will not be determined for a long time, and the hood will not be the deciding factor. It will be the provable history and VIN #. At some point a smart business person will get a hold of an actual KR hood and make exact replicas and make a killing in profits because the originators did not offer a product that people obviously wanted. As stated prior to this posting, all you have to do is look at all the GT500 body kits that are out.

As an aside, for the SS ownwers, how do you feel about not being offered the same carbon option if it is a better quality piece than a fiberglass one. I think that people (especially SS people) want a high quality light weight piece more than they want to create a clone. Also for the SS people, how does it feel to know that all the corporate heads feel it is ok to make an SS clone, but not a KR one?

That was my point exactly.

[08SHELBYSS]

1000

[Robert M]

texaggie, on Sep 14 2009, 04:16 PM, said:

The collectivity/ exclusivity point is pretty weak. We see every day cars that there are Shelby clones from the '60s and '70s. People know how to spot them and then decide on what they are willing to buy or not buy. The value of the new cars is already dropping (as it should be expected to). The collection value will not be determined for a long time, and the hood will not be the deciding factor. It will be the provable history and VIN #. At some point a smart business person will get a hold of an actual KR hood and make exact replicas and make a killing in profits because the originators did not offer a product that people obviously wanted. As stated prior to this posting, all you have to do is look at all the GT500 body kits that are out.

As an aside, for the SS ownwers, how do you feel about not being offered the same carbon option if it is a better quality piece than a fiberglass one. I think that people (especially SS people) want a high quality light weight piece more than they want to create a clone. Also for the SS people, how does it feel to know that all the corporate heads feel it is ok to make an SS clone, but not a KR one?

I do not see each and every piece for the Super Snake offered to the public, so I don't see a "clone". A clone is an exact replica, all parts to duplicate the original. A similar set of wheels, a similar KB supercharger and some other similar items do not make an exact replica (clone). As with the Cobra R's bolting on a hood and a set of wheels does not make the non-Cobra R a Cobra R. In the Super Snakes case, the readily available parts are close, but in the end, no cigar.<<<No clone. But yes, the exact hood and a few of the other exact items can be purchased, but it takes a CSM number to get some of the exact replacement parts, and as with the KR hood, if you damage a Super Snake specific wheel, it has to be returned before the replacement is shipped. I think the "hold back" items for the KR are the hood and the wheels. I think the "hold back" items for the Super Snake are the wheels and the blower (at least on the 725),<<<and then the identifiers for both KR and SS. Other parts on both of these cars can be had through SPP, maybe not all other parts, but many of them.

Can someone provide a valid CSM number for a KR or a Super Snake and not be a KR or Super Snake owner, sure, can they provide the return parts to aquire the new ones is the question?

The 605 SS owners will have to chime in on what, in addition to the 20" wheels are Super Snake specific to their cars and can not be readily purchased through SPP, because I am not familiar with the 605's.

But, in the end, any of these parts can be duplicated as long as there is an original. The market/demand will drive the duplication, and then laws, patents and copyrights.

I am happy that many in the late model Mustang hobby are interested in their car "looking" like a Super Snake. There is just something about 700+h.p. in the "car guy world".

R

This post has been edited by Robert M: 15 September 2009 - 03:30 AM

[texaggie]

Robert M, on Sep 14 2009, 09:22 PM, said:

I do not see each and every piece for the Super Snake offered to the public, so I don't see a "clone". A clone is an exact replica, all parts to duplicate the original. A similar set of wheels, a similar KB supercharger and some other similar items do not make an exact replica (clone). As with the Cobra R's bolting on a hood and a set of wheels does not make the non-Cobra R a Cobra R. In the Super Snakes case, the readily available parts are close, but in the end, no cigar.<<<No clone. But yes, the exact hood and a few of the other exact items can be purchased, but it takes a CSM number to get some of the exact replacement parts, and as with the KR hood, if you damage a Super Snake specific wheel, it has to be returned before the replacement is shipped. I think the "hold back" items for the KR are the hood and the wheels. I think the "hold back" items for the Super Snake are the wheels and the blower (at least on the 725),<<<and then the identifiers for both KR and SS. Other parts on both of these cars can be had through SPP, maybe not all other parts, but many of them.

Can someone provide a valid CSM number for a KR or a Super Snake and not be a KR or Super Snake owner, sure, can they provide the return parts to aquire the new ones is the question?

The 605 SS owners will have to chime in on what, in addition to the 20" wheels are Super Snake specific to their cars and can not be readily purchased through SPP, because I am not familiar with the 605's.

But, in the end, any of these parts can be duplicated as long as there is an original. The market/demand will drive the duplication, and then laws, patents and copyrights.

I am happy that many in the late model Mustang hobby are interested in their car "looking" like a Super Snake. There is just something about 700+h.p. in the "car guy world".

R

ummm....

I think you just proved my point and argued against it at the same time. A clone is never an "exact" replica though. It can't be. It would never have a 40 year old csm#, or 40 year old Shelby parts. Now there have been some tribute style replicas that have been authorized production models that are similar to classic shelbys and have thier own csm#s, but they are not mistaken to be traditional GT350s or GT500s.
As for the late model cars, everyone should expect more the same in the market if people decide that they are worth money long term. Making parts that look like specialty parts will happen it is just a matter of time. Money, desire and / or need cross at some point. Making a post purchase GT500 hit 700+hp is not that hard and has happened quite a bit. Just buy a magazine off of any rack and start reading. Oh, and a KB is openly available on the market.
And on that note....
Like I said, you proved my point even though you were trying to go against it. It will take more than a hood for a car to have special placement or value in a market. And, those that are fortunate enough to own a true KR or SS can drive around happily knowing that their car is authentic, but their happiness won't be because someone else has not found a way to make their car look like it. a V6 with a gt500 body kit is not a threat to my pleasure in owning an actual GT500. It just means that they will look really stupid when a 350z smokes them on a track or from light to light (which I would know absolutely nothing about, because I would NEVER be so irresponsible with my fuel consumption, and I think it might be illegal, at least that is what someone tried to tell me. ) Which is ok because the same 350z will not know what happened after they come across a real one.

[Robert M]

texaggie, on Sep 16 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

ummm....

I think you just proved my point and argued against it at the same time. A clone is never an "exact" replica though. It can't be. It would never have a 40 year old csm#, or 40 year old Shelby parts. Now there have been some tribute style replicas that have been authorized production models that are similar to classic shelbys and have thier own csm#s, but they are not mistaken to be traditional GT350s or GT500s.
As for the late model cars, everyone should expect more the same in the market if people decide that they are worth money long term. Making parts that look like specialty parts will happen it is just a matter of time. Money, desire and / or need cross at some point. Making a post purchase GT500 hit 700+hp is not that hard and has happened quite a bit. Just buy a magazine off of any rack and start reading. Oh, and a KB is openly available on the market.
And on that note....
Like I said, you proved my point even though you were trying to go against it. It will take more than a hood for a car to have special placement or value in a market. And, those that are fortunate enough to own a true KR or SS can drive around happily knowing that their car is authentic, but their happiness won't be because someone else has not found a way to make their car look like it. a V6 with a gt500 body kit is not a threat to my pleasure in owning an actual GT500. It just means that they will look really stupid when a 350z smokes them on a track or from light to light (which I would know absolutely nothing about, because I would NEVER be so irresponsible with my fuel consumption, and I think it might be illegal, at least that is what someone tried to tell me. ) Which is ok because the same 350z will not know what happened after they come across a real one.

I was not trying to argue or prove. I know from past history that "what" matters as much as "who", when it comes to specific cars, their desirablity, and their value. The "what" is what the car is, the "who" is who built it. I do agree that if Ford builds an assy. line fully street legal 700+h.p. Mustang and offers it to the public then that will make a huge difference in the pre and post debate, if they never do, then the post title Super Snake (or 40th) is the "only" option if someone were to desire a 700+h.p. level official Shelby built GT500.

I agree that making a post sale GT500 hit 700+ is common, I would ask, who did the work? Joe Lunchbox?<<no big deal, or is it Shelby building a Shelby?<<completely different level. So yes, the average person building a post title 700+ is common and not so special. I would have to say that I also realize that with the introduction of the 2010 GT500, making a 540 horse pre-title GT500 is not as special as it seemed a year or two ago.

These are the unique items that are specific to the Super Snake KB and not offered on the "other" KB blowers. Yes, the KB blowers are readily available and 700+ is not a big deal, but SAI installed, SAI CSM'ed, not so many. These are the items that make the KB a unique item. These make it a "hold back" item.




It is the identifiers on this blower that I believe the SAI decision makers have decided to hold back from public consumption, as the KR hood is held back. So if a "similar looking GT500" is considered a clone SS, it may be close, but not close enough to fool anyone for long, and then as you mentioned, these are CSM numbered cars, another not so easy thing to clone. Like I had mentioned above, I like the enthusiast(s) desiring their GT500 to look like a Super Snake, one day, when the time/money is right, they will want their own official CSM 700+h.p. version.

R

This post has been edited by Robert M: 16 September 2009 - 03:14 PM

[MAMBA-SS]

i'D LIKE TO ADD MY 2 CENTS WORTH TO THIS.
I own a 1966 GT350H, a 2006 GT=-H and a 2008 Super Snake.
I have seen many fake 1966 Gt350H's that are very dificult to distinguish from the real thing. This includes fake serial number plates. The one thing that seperates them is the SAAC records. They have been on this issue for a long time.
There have over the years been reproduction parts for these cars with little legal action taken, but all we need do is make one call to find which is which.
I can appreciate these clones though and take it as a compliment to the real thing. My son even has one that's beautiful and if he could afford a real one he would have it.
The answer is simply record keeping on the part of SAI. A printed registery shoud be made available.
I think that parts should be made available to anyone, however the SAI registry should include only the SAI produced cars.

Thanks
Oz

[texaggie]

MAMBA-SS, on Sep 17 2009, 10:55 AM, said:

i'D LIKE TO ADD MY 2 CENTS WORTH TO THIS.
I own a 1966 GT350H, a 2006 GT=-H and a 2008 Super Snake.
I have seen many fake 1966 Gt350H's that are very dificult to distinguish from the real thing. This includes fake serial number plates. The one thing that seperates them is the SAAC records. They have been on this issue for a long time.
There have over the years been reproduction parts for these cars with little legal action taken, but all we need do is make one call to find which is which.
I can appreciate these clones though and take it as a compliment to the real thing. My son even has one that's beautiful and if he could afford a real one he would have it.
The answer is simply record keeping on the part of SAI. A printed registery shoud be made available.
I think that parts should be made available to anyone, however the SAI registry should include only the SAI produced cars.

Thanks
Oz

Hey oz,
Just letting you know that I completely agree with you, and M, I just want you to know that I get the fact that there are things that have Shelby on them that you do not get without paying the extra money for them (and that's ok). I'm just saying that anyone who is pretending that by holding things back from people will keep them from having a car that looks like a special one(whatever brand or model or make) is misguided. Oh, and engraving and etching is easy to have done. So, you are back to having to research the registry anyway.
Special cars are great! Otherwise we would not call them special. I just think people get a little too carried away with themselves when it comes to being upset if someone has a car similar to theirs. If you really want to be that exclusive then try to get an Aston Martin One-77. (Here's a hint only 177 are being made world wide.)

as for me, I love my GT500. I love the FRPP Handling Pack I had installed. I love the FRPP short throw shifter. I love my FRPP Cold Air and Exhaust. I love my electronically retractable front plate. I love my louvers. I love my cf (carbon fiber) engine caps. I can't wait till I can get the interior upgraded with custom leather, and have the consoles painted to match the exterior. I'm looking forward to replacing the front splitter with the cf one. Planning on changing out the wheels for some OZ HLT wheels. I'm still contemplating the pulley change out on the supercharger. Still contemplating changing out the front fenders with Roush made cf ones. Still thinking about changing out the hood, but I would only get one if it was lighter, as strong or stronger, and as attractive as the original (subject to personal opinion). And, I love the fact that when it is all done I can have it all brought back to stock because every original piece is packed up in my garage.

As an aside to the hood thing, if a true cf hood that matched OEM specs was ever made as a direct replacement to the base gt500 hood I would buy it in a heart beat. I think I would like it more than a KR hood (I like the style of the gt500 hood), but I will withhold judgement until I see one. For me it is about performance (Gt500s need to lose a lot of weight especially in the front) and looks before collectivity, but I also played with my toys and read my comics as a kid.

[Robert M]

MAMBA-SS, on Sep 17 2009, 11:55 AM, said:

i'D LIKE TO ADD MY 2 CENTS WORTH TO THIS.
I own a 1966 GT350H, a 2006 GT=-H and a 2008 Super Snake.
I have seen many fake 1966 Gt350H's that are very dificult to distinguish from the real thing. This includes fake serial number plates. The one thing that seperates them is the SAAC records. They have been on this issue for a long time.
There have over the years been reproduction parts for these cars with little legal action taken, but all we need do is make one call to find which is which.
I can appreciate these clones though and take it as a compliment to the real thing. My son even has one that's beautiful and if he could afford a real one he would have it.
The answer is simply record keeping on the part of SAI. A printed registery shoud be made available.
I think that parts should be made available to anyone, however the SAI registry should include only the SAI produced cars.

Thanks
Oz

Oz - I agree with this^^^^^and I also agree with Texaggie on a good portion of this discussion. I do have a thought as it relates to clones, or a clone definition............, if it is not an exact replica or extemely close, (as outlined above with the GT350H example), what percentage of unique parts have to be installed on a car for it to become a clone. There was mention early in this discussion of the hood and other Super Snake parts not being held back by Shelby, as some KR parts have been, and what do the Super Snake owners think of this? Does the hood and a set of 20" Alcoas installed constitute a Super Snake clone? Does it also require a GT500 as a base car? When a 6cyl is sitting at a car show with the hood closed, but Super Snake appearance items attached to it, is it a clone?

It seems that "clone" is tossed around often, but when realistcally examined, the "clone" is nothing more than a set of wheels and a hood, a maybe a couple of other trinket items.<<<Nowhere near anything that could truely be a clone of the original. Now if it is a car as outlined above, GT350, Autolite this and that, date codes casting numbers, correct reproduction items (which are on most restored cars and not 40 year old items), then that is a different story. If there is a CSM number also involved, the owner better have complete documentation to verify that the car is what they claim it is. And then there is the rebody issue..................

R

This post has been edited by Robert M: 24 September 2009 - 12:35 PM

[roger-SAI]

All Shelby records are tied to a VIN matching a CSM. One must match to the other. The plus side of accurate records and preserving the integrity and long term value of the term "authentic".

While parts will be duplicated they can rarely be authenticated in todays electronic world.

Roger