What first?, 11" or Watts Options

[cloud9]

So it would be interesting if someone (kahmann or Colin perhaps) could describe a phased approach for purchasing/installing the Griggs GR40SS suspension system. Especially for us budget challenged. Looking at the Griggs website, the basic GR40SS for both front and rear is $3600 for parts only. I'm not confident that I could do the install, so there would be some labor on top of that, not sure how much.

With a phased approach, if that is possible, maybe the installation of the GR40SS can be done in more manageable stages? Any input is appreciated. If this belongs in another thread, maybe someone can start another one.

Thanks!

Contact Van (dactyl) about this approach. I was in the same boat as you and knew I needed to really improve the suspension to make a difference in cornering. I also wasn't ready to part with $4k all at once. Talking it through with Van, he laid out a practical way of phasing it. He'll probably suggest starting with the torque arm. As was stated, the Watts link is more for road racers and probably not needed in your case. You can always add it later if you want.

That being said, my wife (in a weak moment) approved the full setup so my phased approach quickly went out the window. Ya know strike while the iron is hot? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) However, I'm really glad I went this route. The more I drive the car, the more I realize how "different" (as in better) it is to drive. This holds true on the track and the street. I have found the rear end traction to be remarkably better on the stock rims. You will get more traction out of this suspension upgrade than you will with wider tires, especially when cornering.

[MMcGuirk]

Just FYI, anything left at the shop is scrapped/recycled. Nothing is resold. Its junk anyway.

Colin

You know, I may not be an expert like all the folks at Griggs but I have had my fair share of hot rods, race cars, Shelby's, Porsches, BMWs, motor cycles and I owned a fairly successful mod shop for most of the nineties.

I have a nice modified S197 with FRPP FR3 springs, Tokico shocks and a Fay's 2 watt's link that works just fine. In fact, quite a few Team Shelby members have seen me track it and have commented on how well it works.

That being said, I am taking a personal affront to some vendor telling me that my pride and joy is comprised of junk parts.

Maybe I need some of the Griggs Kool-Aid?

[MY500SS]

Contact Van (dactyl) about this approach. I was in the same boat as you and knew I needed to really improve the suspension to make a difference in cornering. I also wasn't ready to part with $4k all at once. Talking it through with Van, he laid out a practical way of phasing it. He'll probably suggest starting with the torque arm. As was stated, the Watts link is more for road racers and probably not needed in your case. You can always add it later if you want.

That being said, my wife (in a weak moment) approved the full setup so my phased approach quickly went out the window. Ya know strike while the iron is hot? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) However, I'm really glad I went this route. The more I drive the car, the more I realize how "different" (as in better) it is to drive. This holds true on the track and the street. I have found the rear end traction to be remarkably better on the stock rims. You will get more traction out of this suspension upgrade than you will with wider tires, especially when cornering.

That's how I got the SS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif)

[cluscher]

Well, first off, I need new shoes, I just turned 20k miles the other day, on the original tires (my Dad used to tell me, you can run hard just be smooth and easy on your equipment), and I am trying to decide on new rubber, and a few other things.
My 500 is my daily driver (i guess with 20k thats obvious!) and I am more of a corner carver than a straight line guy, not that I dont love straight line blasts! But hustling 2 tons through the local canyons is where its at for me. I also want to get more power to the ground so, I am thinking of having the stock rears windened to 11" and using 315's and going with 285's up front, being a corner lover, I want to stay as "square" as possible at all 4 corners with the widths but get as much rubber on the ground as possible.
Now, since my car is my daily driver, I cant have any downtime to send my wheels out so I will pick up a pair, should be able to get 2 good used ones for around $250 shipped. Send them to Weldcraft for windening ($450ish), and get some rubber, and most likely keep the 2 extra wheels. Here is where my mind is battling, do I have the wheels done for $700ish or do the Fays2 watts link for a similar price. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headscratch.gif)
My logic says to do the wheels now because I need tires and traction has been an issue since day 1 but that rear suspension has also been an issue since day 1. Even though the mods I did to the rear really helped the driveability, there is no escaping the floaty geometry of the panhard setup, and I have read that the watts link does help a bit with traction. I will eventually do more engine mods for more power but the suspension needs help first to properly use it, IMO. I would like to upgrade to a full on Griggs setup but coin will not allow that for the time being.
So the question comes down to, 11" wheels or a watts link, I will probably eventually do both, just cant decide what to do first, too much research sometimes robbs your clarity! Then what tires depending on stock or widened width (and that is a entire different subject!), so opinions welcomed by anyone who has done either or both, and anyone else for that matter!
Thanks,
Mike.

If it was me I'd upgrade suspension before widening wheels. You can fit 275/40s and 305/35s on the stock rims. Both are about the same height and about a half-inch shorter in diameter than stock. Pretty close to what you want to accomplish with the widened rims anyway.

[2kgt281]

If it was me I'd upgrade suspension before widening wheels. You can fit 275/40s and 305/35s on the stock rims. Both are about the same height and about a half-inch shorter in diameter than stock. Pretty close to what you want to accomplish with the widened rims anyway.

I think that is what I will end up doing but I am still a bit sceptical about putting a 305 on the stock rear rim although many have done it and many say that the Nitto's for instance run a bit more narrow than other brands (size for size) but even on the Nitto site, for the 305's, they recomend a minimum of a 10" wide rim and optimal would be 11". There is a 305/45/18 with a minimum rim width of 9.5" but that tire is nearly 2" taller than stock, too big. If the rim is too narrow for a tire, and the rim is pinching the tire in, you could end up with a smaller, effective contact patch than you started with on the 285's, plus the sidewall wont have the proper support in hard cornering.

This post has been edited by 2kgt281: Nov 3 2009, 11:40 AM

[cluscher]

I think that is what I will end up doing but I am still a bit sceptical about putting a 305 on the stock rear rim although many have done it and many say that the Nitto's for instance run a bit more narrow than other brands (size for size) but even on the Nitto site, for the 305's, they recomend a minimum of a 10" wide rim and optimal would be 11". There is a 305/45/18 with a minimum rim width of 9.5" but that tire is nearly 2" taller than stock, too big. If the rim is too narrow for a tire, and the rim is pinching the tire in, you could end up with a smaller, effective contact patch than you started with on the 285's, plus the sidewall wont have the proper support in hard cornering.

Yep, totaly agree. I haven't burned up my Goodyears yet to have personal experience, but based on all the positive feedback from people running 305s on stock rims, I'm going to give it a shot when the time comes. Worst case scenario is you try something different after you burn those rears up. I'll be interested to hear your opinion if you go this route. Happy modding!!

[chuckstang]

just curious, did my post get deleted?

[2kgt281]

just curious, did my post get deleted?

Chuck: I guess so!?! But I dont recall seeing a post from you in this thread.

This post has been edited by 2kgt281: Nov 3 2009, 03:44 PM

[03 DSG Snake]

You know, I may not be an expert like all the folks at Griggs but I have had my fair share of hot rods, race cars, Shelby's, Porsches, BMWs, motor cycles and I owned a fairly successful mod shop for most of the nineties.

I have a nice modified S197 with FRPP FR3 springs, Tokico shocks and a Fay's 2 watt's link that works just fine. In fact, quite a few Team Shelby members have seen me track it and have commented on how well it works.

That being said, I am taking a personal affront to some vendor telling me that my pride and joy is comprised of junk parts.

Maybe I need some of the Griggs Kool-Aid?

A setup like that would be more than enough for plenty of people around here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shift.gif)

[jamesb]

If you like going around corners, on our fine country road surfaces, then you want a watts link. As for tires, if you are running stockers now, just get some stickier tires that fit, and they will more than make up for the lack of width. Sure 305 RA1s are better than 285 RA1s, but 285 RA1s are waaaaay better than 285 F1s. Of course their treadwear is 100, so... RA1s are comp tires too, so a better street tire might be in order, like Michelin PS2s. Dont put too big tires on, or you lose your cornering ability anyway. Also remember that our weight balance is 57/43!!! So bigger tires on the back will help in a straight line, but as someone told me "She'll understeer like a pig". I have 305's all round :-)

As for the Fayes, etc, I can't imagine that any axle-clamp based watts link can take a beating. There's just too many torques applied. As far as I'm aware, the Griggs is the only one for the mustang which bolts to the diff and keeps the range of motion in a plane. I'm a physicist, not an engineer, but Applied Mechanics 101 makes me look at the Fayes and think bad thoughts. So if you are going to spend the money, spend it on the right one.