[1970boss302]

If you read the last Motor Trend they have Ford producing a Boss 330 .
The 5.4 liter engine will be producing almost 400 horse power.
Look for the Boss 330 in 2009 after the GT 500 has run it course.
The Boss 330 has a weight disadvantage over the Camaro due to
the engine block being steel not aluminum. 300 lbs.

[MustangFanatic]

1970boss302, on Apr 3 2006, 04:25 PM, said:

If you read the last Motor Trend they have Ford producing a Boss 330 .
The 5.4 liter engine will be producing almost 400 horse power.
Look for the Boss 330 in 2009 after the GT 500 has run it course.
The Boss 330 has a weight disadvantage over the Camaro due to
the engine block being steel not aluminum. 300 lbs.

I don't mind a Boss 330 or 329 whichever they choose to call it. I do strongly disagree with the weight penalty. The Mustang is already heavy and if Ford can't offer an all-aluminum 5.4L in the Boss, they are sacrificing the legend of the Boss by not an all-aluminum engine. If they can't offer an aluminum 5.4L in the Boss, Ford should consider a hi-revving version of the 4.6L engine instead IMHO

[robertlane]

1970boss302, on Apr 3 2006, 04:25 PM, said:

If you read the last Motor Trend they have Ford producing a Boss 330 .
The 5.4 liter engine will be producing almost 400 horse power.
Look for the Boss 330 in 2009 after the GT 500 has run it course.
The Boss 330 has a weight disadvantage over the Camaro due to
the engine block being steel not aluminum. 300 lbs.

I don't buy that article. The 4.6L Terminator Cobra pumped out 390 horsepower, yet they are claiming that a 5.4L "Boss" will produce 400? I don't see that happening considering they have an "off the shelf" 475hp 5.4L from the GT500 available.

[95SVTCobraVA]

robertlane, on Apr 3 2006, 08:54 PM, said:

I don't buy that article. The 4.6L Terminator Cobra pumped out 390 horsepower, yet they are claiming that a 5.4L "Boss" will produce 400? I don't see that happening considering they have an "off the shelf" 475hp 5.4L from the GT500 available.

I agree Robert. I can't see 400HP maybe 350HP with out the supercharger! But, what do I know

[Ben99GT]

95SVTCobraVA, on Apr 13 2006, 11:44 AM, said:

I agree Robert. I can't see 400HP maybe 350HP with out the supercharger! But, what do I know

Not much apparently. MT was using the 389 horsepower figure based on what the Boss 290 Falcon from Austrailia makes, which just happens to use a n/a 4V 5.4.

This post has been edited by Ben99GT: 14 April 2006 - 07:10 PM

[DVS2XS]

Why stop at 5.4L (330 ci)?

What about a 6.2L engine?

DEARBORN, Mich. — Ford has revived its 6.2-liter V-8 engine, dubbed the Hurricane, as part of a broader restructuring plan, according to a report in the Detroit News.

The engine will butt heads with Chrysler's SRT8 6.1-liter Hemi engine that churns out 425 horsepower and 420 pound-feet of torque, as well as General Motors' 403-horsepower 6.2-liter Vortec engine that powers the 2007 Cadillac Escalade.

Ford had killed the Hurricane a year ago but revived the engine three months ago to help maintain the company's leadership in the truck market. Analysts say Ford's Cleveland casting plant has received orders for a new 6.2-liter engine block, with work to begin next year.

The speculation is that the Ford engine will outgun the Hemi and may be used in other company platforms. It is unclear whether the new engine will keep the Hurricane nickname.

What this means to you: Ford needs a Hemi-style engine to capture the imagination of the public — and to hold the F-Series' lead.



Boss 380 anyone?

-Devious

[robertlane]

DVS2XS, on Apr 26 2006, 06:32 AM, said:

Why stop at 5.4L (330 ci)?

What about a 6.2L engine?

DEARBORN, Mich. — Ford has revived its 6.2-liter V-8 engine, dubbed the Hurricane, as part of a broader restructuring plan, according to a report in the Detroit News.

The engine will butt heads with Chrysler's SRT8 6.1-liter Hemi engine that churns out 425 horsepower and 420 pound-feet of torque, as well as General Motors' 403-horsepower 6.2-liter Vortec engine that powers the 2007 Cadillac Escalade.

Ford had killed the Hurricane a year ago but revived the engine three months ago to help maintain the company's leadership in the truck market. Analysts say Ford's Cleveland casting plant has received orders for a new 6.2-liter engine block, with work to begin next year.

The speculation is that the Ford engine will outgun the Hemi and may be used in other company platforms. It is unclear whether the new engine will keep the Hurricane nickname.

What this means to you: Ford needs a Hemi-style engine to capture the imagination of the public — and to hold the F-Series' lead.
Boss 380 anyone?

-Devious

Don't think the Hurricane will be in anything except trucks for a while.

[JETSOLVER]

I have read the article Big engines but I still question why FoMoCo is going that route when they have the leverage of all that engineering talent from the mergers/aquisitions of the past decade. Why not stretch the envelope in the same way that the first mod's did? Remember they did the 4 cam 4.6 n/a first and backed it down from there. That powerplant is still top 10 in the world in terms of efficiancy/power and it weighs next to nothing. can they not see that while styling is making some headway at GM, the lack of leading edge engineering options is killing them? In a world were $50+ a barrel oil is here to stay(and it is) the company has to create the same perception as the imports. Perception is everything. JD and his ilk can put out all the great rankings but if Joe and Jane average don't get it, the Blue is gonna keep sliding. I htink lil' Bill needs to get out of the way and put a car guy(Coletti?) in charge. They have all the numbers people they need but without a stratigic leader this is gonna get worse.

This post has been edited by JETSOLVER: 27 April 2006 - 07:30 AM

[Cheese302]

MustangFanatic, on Apr 3 2006, 08:34 PM, said:

I don't mind a Boss 330 or 329 whichever they choose to call it. I do strongly disagree with the weight penalty. The Mustang is already heavy and if Ford can't offer an all-aluminum 5.4L in the Boss, they are sacrificing the legend of the Boss by not an all-aluminum engine. If they can't offer an aluminum 5.4L in the Boss, Ford should consider a hi-revving version of the 4.6L engine instead IMHO

well i agree with you but i should make mention


all of the original boss cars had iron blocks. The block on my 69 boss 302 is iron as long as the heads are aluminum, it wont be too bad.

just make sure then thing can REV

[MuscleManiac]

How hard would it be for Ford to just stroke the 4.6 to 5.0. That would be perfect I think becuase if we just had a cast iron 5.4 the only difference between the boss and the shelby would be ones super charged and the others N/A. The after market performance of these would be borring slap on a super charger and you have a shelby. And If ford would stroke the 4.6 to 5.0 we can still keep the name Boss 302. Slap on gt500 heads, 6-spd manual, and a special intake and 400 hp be no problem. Be lighter then the shelby with prob better power to weight ratio and it would be the perfect inbetween model of the gt and gt500. A stroke block from the GT and the heads and tranny from the GT500, how perfect is that.

[68fastback]

MuscleManiac, on Jun 16 2006, 06:53 PM, said:

How hard would it be for Ford to just stroke the 4.6 to 5.0. That would be perfect I think becuase if we just had a cast iron 5.4 the only difference between the boss and the shelby would be ones super charged and the others N/A. The after market performance of these would be borring slap on a super charger and you have a shelby. And If ford would stroke the 4.6 to 5.0 we can still keep the name Boss 302. Slap on gt500 heads, 6-spd manual, and a special intake and 400 hp be no problem. Be lighter then the shelby with prob better power to weight ratio and it would be the perfect inbetween model of the gt and gt500. A stroke block from the GT and the heads and tranny from the GT500, how perfect is that.

Sounds like the FR 5.0L 4V modular crate-racer motor, but that was +/- 450 HP for about $23K (motor). But, yes, I agree.... no reason no to do a 5.0L Boss302. It would be a little under-square, but with Manley h-beams, etc. should rev to 6,800 or so easily and not be all that expensive. That would also be a nice tribute to the Boss302 of the past. The weight of the GT (or lighter with deopts) and 400HP would be really nice for $35-37K!

[MustangFanatic]

68fastback, on Jun 30 2006, 12:56 AM, said:

Sounds like the FR 5.0L 4V modular crate-racer motor, but that was +/- 450 HP for about $23K (motor). But, yes, I agree.... no reason no to do a 5.0L Boss302. It would be a little under-square, but with Manley h-beams, etc. should rev to 6,800 or so easily and not be all that expensive. That would also be a nice tribute to the Boss302 of the past. The weight of the GT (or lighter with deopts) and 400HP would be really nice for $35-37K!

I would agree, stroking the 4.6L to 5.0L certainly makes the most sense. It would align nicely with the original Boss 302 theme, a high revving V8 plus existing 4V cylinder heads to complete the package. Just curious, anyone know how Saleen achieved 302 cubes out of a 4.6L block?

[68fastback]

MustangFanatic, on Jun 30 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

I would agree, stroking the 4.6L to 5.0L certainly makes the most sense. It would align nicely with the original Boss 302 theme, a high revving V8 plus existing 4V cylinder heads to complete the package. Just curious, anyone know how Saleen achieved 302 cubes out of a 4.6L block?

Yes, it was mildly stroked'. The modular series 'effective' max bore is 3.55" The 4.6, 5.0 and 5.4 modulars are essentially the same bore.

The original 302s were 4.00" x 3.00" which let them rev like crazy, but you had to stay in the peak-power band. An undersquare modular of any displacement will be effectively rev-limited by piston speed/rod strength/rod-angle (which oversquares typically don't have to worry about nearly as much) but will have a broad power curve. The 5.4 GT500 is pretty darn undersquare so is limited (as built) to about 6250rpm or so. The 4.6 about 6,800. A 5.0 of similar robustness, maybe 6,500. Of course, with the right rods/pistons etc maybe 7,000 but piston speeds would start to be a problem beyond that.

It's amazing that the old 302 blocks are now being stroked to 427cid (even saw a hi-deck 351 stroked to 452cid!) for grunt but you sure would not want to go 7800-8000grand like the old Boss 302

[MustangFanatic]

68fastback, on Jun 30 2006, 02:07 PM, said:

Yes, it was mildly stroked'. The modular series 'effective' max bore is 3.55" The 4.6, 5.0 and 5.4 modulars are essentially the same bore.

The original 302s were 4.00" x 3.00" which let them rev like crazy, but you had to stay in the peak-power band. An undersquare modular of any displacement will be effectively rev-limited by piston speed/rod strength/rod-angle (which oversquares typically don't have to worry about nearly as much) but will have a broad power curve. The 5.4 GT500 is pretty darn undersquare so is limited (as built) to about 6250rpm or so. The 4.6 about 6,800. A 5.0 of similar robustness, maybe 6,500. Of course, with the right rods/pistons etc maybe 7,000 but piston speeds would start to be a problem beyond that.

It's amazing that the old 302 blocks are now being stroked to 427cid (even saw a hi-deck 351 stroked to 452cid!) for grunt but you sure would not want to go 7800-8000grand like the old Boss 302

Certainly, stroking a 4.6L would create an engine limited to less than 7K RPM for the reasons described above. However, most Boss owners would not rev their engines past 7K and coupling a 5.0L Mod Motor with a properly spaced 6 spd transmission would allow the engine to remain in the optimal operating range. While I would love to see a Boss that would rev to 8K, I could live with a 400 hp 5.0L Boss that would rev to 7K.

I agree as well, they are stroking the old pushrod engines to even more incredible sizes but they are certainly RPM limited but definitely have low rpm grunt.

[MuscleManiac]

All the parts are there and It wouldent cost Ford a thing by making a slightly longer stroke, use the GT500 heads and tranny and we have a great all around 400hp BOSS 302 with the weight of or less then the GT with a price tag of prob 35k perfectly between the GT and GT500. I just love the thought of a BOSS 302, We have the retro look and with a 302 under the hood, It would really pay tribute to the originals.

[68fastback]

MuscleManiac, on Jul 4 2006, 04:11 PM, said:

All the parts are there and It wouldent cost Ford a thing by making a slightly longer stroke, use the GT500 heads and tranny and we have a great all around 400hp BOSS 302 with the weight of or less then the GT with a price tag of prob 35k perfectly between the GT and GT500. I just love the thought of a BOSS 302, We have the retro look and with a 302 under the hood, It would really pay tribute to the originals.

Yeah, I think that's exactly what we're going to see. I would love one!

And could you imagine if Ford does the Hurricane (aluminum DOHC big-block)? They'd just have to do a Boss 429 with that!

Going a bit off topic now, but it's truly amazing what they're doing with strokers... I've seen some old 427/460 big block Fords stroked to +/- 800CID! Even the 460 (2-bolt FRPP 'NASCAR' shortblock is rated by FRPP for "up to 1500HP." We can only imagine what a properly prepped aluminum 427 4-bolt side oiler might handle with today's technology and computer stress simulation to beef up the right areas (not that it needs much!). There's a guy in Brooklyn, NY who's managed to coax (fully reace prepped, top to bottom, custom ground cams.. you name it) approx 1200HP from a nat.asp. 5.4 modular! I say approx 1200HP because the mustang dyno he had it on wend into shut down mode at it's cutoff of 1000HP... at 4800rpm -- so there was a lot more in it yet! Not something suitable for a production car for sure, but that's absolutely amazing for 330CID. 4-5 years ago, 500CID big block NHRA pro-stocks were having trouble getting to those numbers! Amazing what computer modelling and great DOHC 4-valve heads will permit.

<edit:> personally, I'd love to see Ford get back into NHRA pro-stock with the Hurricane/mustang combo. The we'll see how fast GM and DCX have to put their pushrod dinosaurs out to pasture. For the street, pushrods are just fine, but in an all out NHRA pro-stock context, I think an all out big-block DOHC would shame the current pushrod pro-stocks. Maybe Ford could even coax Bob Glidden back -- I believe he still has the NHRA pro-stock career win record (all Fords) and he hasn't driven one since Ford pulled out of pro-stock (about 15 years ago now?) Bring it on, I say

Ok, back to Boss 330 stuff, I guess <sigh> ;-)

This post has been edited by 68fastback: 04 July 2006 - 05:52 PM

[68fastback]

68fastback, on Jun 30 2006, 02:07 PM, said:

Yes, it was mildly stroked'. The modular series 'effective' max bore is 3.55" The 4.6, 5.0 and 5.4 modulars are essentially the same bore.

The original 302s were 4.00" x 3.00" which let them rev like crazy, but you had to stay in the peak-power band. An undersquare modular of any displacement will be effectively rev-limited by piston speed/rod strength/rod-angle (which oversquares typically don't have to worry about nearly as much) but will have a broad power curve. The 5.4 GT500 is pretty darn undersquare so is limited (as built) to about 6250rpm or so. The 4.6 about 6,800. A 5.0 of similar robustness, maybe 6,500. Of course, with the right rods/pistons etc maybe 7,000 but piston speeds would start to be a problem beyond that.

It's amazing that the old 302 blocks are now being stroked to 427cid (even saw a hi-deck 351 stroked to 452cid!) for grunt but you sure would not want to go 7800-8000grand like the old Boss 302

Also, see my post #44 on this thread (link below) for what may be the Boss 302 prototype shown at 04 SEMA manufacturers trade show. Boss 302 Prototype ???

This post has been edited by 68fastback: 04 July 2006 - 09:07 PM

[MustangFanatic]

68fastback, on Jul 5 2006, 01:07 AM, said:

Also, see my post #44 on this thread (link below) for what may be the Boss 302 prototype shown at 04 SEMA manufacturers trade show. Boss 302 Prototype ???

Great pics!!! We can only hope and pray Ford can certify the Cammer and put it under the hood of the new Boss!!

[MuscleManiac]

The cammer would be bad ass under the hood of the new BOSS 302 but the price tag would prob be 50k, Idk the cammer can be bought right now but its like 20k+ Its not practicle for a 35k mustang and It would smoke the GT500 so I dont see It happening maybe In 2009 when the mustang Is gonna be changed. Body style of a 09? You think Its gonna stay retro the retro Camaro and Challenger be out in 08 this should be very interesting, Ford right now dominates the pony car muscle cars whatever you want to say who make a 300hp v8 for 28 in america?

[MustangFanatic]

The Cammer would RULE and honestly, I would pay $40 - $45K for a Boss with a real Cammer. However, I think the bigger issue would be certifying the Cammer for emissions since the engine is basically a race-only piece from top to bottom. Don't get me wrong, I'd give anything to have one under the hood of a Boss and I certainly hope Ford gives it serious consideration.