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Carroll's GLHS #001 With The Hans Hermann Head

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I had Carroll's GLHS #001 with the 16v Hans Hermann head out of storage a few months back and while out decided to throw it up on a lift and take a bunch of pics for all you gearheads.

 

Of course you've seen magazine pics taken from 10 feet away but I wanted to get some up close detail pics so you could see some of the many changes that were made to the car besides just bolting on the HH head.

 

A lot of the pics didn't turn out because the lighting was just two dark to get down below that massive intake but here are 50 pics to get you started. Enjoy.

 

Steve

 

GLHS 001 Photo Link

Edited by shelbymotorsports

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I had Carroll's GLHS #001 with the 16v Hans Hermann head out of storage a few months back and while out decided to throw it up on a lift and take a bunch of pics for all you gearheads.

 

Of course you've seen magazine pics taken from 10 feet away but I wanted to get some up close detail pics so you could see some of the many changes that were made to the car besides just bolting on the HH head.

 

A lot of the pics didn't turn out because the lighting was just two dark to get down below that massive intake but here are 50 pics to get you started. Enjoy.

 

Steve

 

GLHS 001 Photo Link

Cool pics Steve! Thanks for posting those. :salute:

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Nice, I'm hopng while it's in your care it gets a good detailing too ;)

 

Looks like a 16V TC Masi AC compressor and power steering resivoir. Also I'm wondering why there are 5 thermocouple bungs on the oil pan, I would think one would get the job done. Any of those original guys still around that engineered built the car? Maillicoat, Hope, Harvey, Hannemann etc...

 

 

Alan

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Nice, I'm hopng while it's in your care it gets a good detailing too ;)

 

Looks like a 16V TC Masi AC compressor and power steering resivoir. Also I'm wondering why there are 5 thermocouple bungs on the oil pan, I would think one would get the job done. Any of those original guys still around that engineered built the car? Maillicoat, Hope, Harvey, Hannemann etc...

 

 

Alan

Mallicoat retired from Chrysler and moved out where you are Alan, his CSX is for sale in Up Front. Hannemann left Chrysler some time back and is working at McLaren. I heard something about Harvey a year or so ago, but don't recall it now. I never heard of Hope before.

Edited by sdac guy

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Nice, I'm hopng while it's in your care it gets a good detailing too ;)

 

Looks like a 16V TC Masi AC compressor and power steering resivoir. Also I'm wondering why there are 5 thermocouple bungs on the oil pan, I would think one would get the job done. Any of those original guys still around that engineered built the car? Maillicoat, Hope, Harvey, Hannemann etc...

 

 

Alan

 

Yup thats a General Motors AC compressor. And yup lots of old thermocoupler locations all over the place.

 

Electronics wise it's being run off a logic module with a custom chip. The trans is a 555 Daytona transmission.

 

Maillicoat, Hope, Harvey, Hannemann etc... still living but are not around Shelby American at all. They moved on many years ago although I've run into all of them except Scott Harvey here in SoCal thru the years.

 

One day while sitting in Carroll's office he mentioned that he no longer knew anybody at Chrysler. It seems everyone from back in the day has retired or moved on to other companies. Shelby seemed a little bummed when he mentioned this but hey just because he wants to keep working at 85 years old doesn't mean other folks don't want the retirement villa.

 

Steve

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Steve,

 

Thanks for sharing is ultra cool piece of history with us!

 

Those are very cool pics. I love the "VW" style intake on that car!

 

Greg

 

 

IIRC Hans Hermann worked for VW before Shelby so I suspect their may be some other parts close to VW specs.

 

By the way if anyone cares Carroll's GLHS turned over to 10,000 miles last Monday when I had it out. That's like under 500 miles per year B)

 

Steve

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"Close to VW Spec" Ha, don't want to bruise any egos but a set of camshafts from and 84 VW Scirocco 16V will drop right in, just like most of the valvetrain Springs, buckets etc... Had to go with some parts that were already on the shelf to meet the deadline.

 

 

Alan

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"Close to VW Spec" Ha, don't want to bruise any egos but a set of camshafts from and 84 VW Scirocco 16V will drop right in, just like most of the valvetrain Springs, buckets etc... Had to go with some parts that were already on the shelf to meet the deadline.

 

 

Alan

 

There goes Alan letting all the secrets out :stop: Next he'll be partnering up with the person who told SDAC members that they are going to reproduce the HH head. All I'll say to that is the HH head design belongs to Carroll Shelby and NO license has ever been issued for it to be reproduced from Shelby Licensing.

 

Anyone want to ship us a head from a 1984 VW Scirocco? I'm actually serious about that as I don't know how easy it is to find one in the junkyard. PM me if you can help. ALan you got one laying around?

 

Steve

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...... Next he'll be partnering up with the person who told SDAC members that they are going to reproduce the HH head. ......

Steve

Hmmm, that's a new one to me. Never heard that before. When was that Steve?

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Hmmm, that's a new one to me. Never heard that before. When was that Steve?

 

Steve's starting the rumor :D

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Makes three of 'us' that never heard the repro rumor Steve?? Are you sure there *was* a rumor before you started it :rolleyes:? Great flow numbers aside, not like a three piece head would be easy to seal or anything...

 

I always check for the 84-86 16V V-Dubs, strangely the heads are always missing. One look a the the intake on them and you'd swear you are seeing double for the HH head :blink:

 

Alan

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Makes three of 'us' that never heard the repro rumor Steve?? Are you sure there *was* a rumor before you started it :rolleyes:? Great flow numbers aside, not like a three piece head would be easy to seal or anything...

 

I always check for the 84-86 16V V-Dubs, strangely the heads are always missing. One look a the the intake on them and you'd swear you are seeing double for the HH head :blink:

 

Alan

 

 

Well then how does this stuff get back to me? The first person who told me of this I basically dismissed it as no way someone would say they are reproducing the head. But then I heard it from another person in a different part of the country who attended the same event. So I decided to straight out ask this person if they were telling people they were going to reproduce the head and all I got was a coy response back. It was basically a how do you know about that.

 

Perhaps they were just trying to create some buzz for their business. It really doesn't matter as I've mentioned the HH is property of SAI and will be protected so lets move on as its a mute point now.

 

Back to the head. I have two of them next to me here. One is a NOS bare head and one is a complete used head. It would be great to get a hold of one of the VW heads and do some measuring to see what parts actually do interchange or did HH make very minor changes to avoid problems between VW and Shelby.

 

So who's going to come to the rescue with a VW head?

 

Steve

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IIRC Hans Hermann worked for VW before Shelby so I suspect their may be some other parts close to VW specs.

 

By the way if anyone cares Carroll's GLHS turned over to 10,000 miles last Monday when I had it out. That's like under 500 miles per year B)

 

Steve

GLHS_Speedo.jpg

GLHS_Speedo.jpg

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Well then how does this stuff get back to me?
On a serious note Steve, that is the problem I have. You hear something 3rd person and attribute it to SDAC. I've been to every convention since SDAC-3 and I don't recall anyone ever saying that. So it must have been said to only a few and not as widespread as you imply in "the person who told SDAC members".

 

Perhaps they were just trying to create some buzz for their business.
A vendor trying to create buzz for their business? That would not be so hard to believe.

 

There are many folks out there that shoot off their mouth and possibly it was one of those times you heard about. I hardly think it is an item worth mentioning, even if it really did happen. With the obvious success of the cars running Lotus, Maserati, or the newer 2.4 DOHC heads lately, who really cares at all about the HH heads? It would be a waste of time to even consider reproducing them (even for the license owner).

Edited by sdac guy

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You hear something 3rd person and attribute it to SDAC.

 

 

The rumor was not meant to be attributed to you or your club. It was SDAC members that brought this to my attention. Next time I'll just use the words "that other club". Problem solved.

 

If you would like to discuss this further please contact me thru a PM.

 

Steve

 

PS- I agree with you completely that there are too many more addfordable 16v conversions out there.

Edited by shelbymotorsports

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The rumor was not meant to be attributed to you or your club. It was SDAC members that brought this to my attention. Next time I'll just use the words "that other club". Problem solved.

 

If you would like to discuss this further please contact me thru a PM.

 

Steve

 

PS- I agree with you completely that there are too many more addfordable 16v conversions out there.

This issue has been completely settled between Steve and myself via a couple PM's. No harm, no foul!! :happy feet:

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Back on track we go.

 

Now we all know where all the Masi heads are, no need for rumors on that one :P , so who is going to come thru on the VW head?

 

Stoked, do they show up on ebay much?

 

Steve

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Dunno about EvilBay, I'm a yard man myself ;) To make it even harder to source the heads, from what I've heard, the 'later' 16V heads 87,88 from 16V GTI's wont work. Gotta be 'early' 84-85 and I think only the Scirocco's got em then though not certain...

 

 

Alan

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Next he'll be partnering up with the person who told SDAC members that they are going to reproduce the HH head.

Steve

 

 

First off, I'm trying to stir the pot on this issue since its been settled between Steve and Barry. However, Steve is correct, as I did post this very same message some years ago, Oct 2003 as a matter of fact.

 

Thats when CS was at the Unique Performance for the GT500 E continuation grand opening / car show in Texas. As the norm, he was signing things for folks and when it was my turn to have my map light cover signed for my GLHS, he didn't recognize the part and asked what it was off of.

When I informed him that it was off one of his Omni's, he stated how much he liked his and that they were going to start reproducing the head again that was on his GLHS, which is the HH head.

As I stated that was some time ago, well before the TS forums were around and before SAI had partnered with Ford to produce the current line of Shelby Mustangs.

 

Steve was on the first user forums put up by Shelby Automobiles Inc. before TS forums was around and I posted there a few times regarding the possible repro of the HH head.

 

So to conclude, Steve's not the rumor spreader we thought he was ;) Carroll is............ :lol:

 

 

Dan Boyd

Member of SDAC

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First off, I'm trying to stir the pot on this issue since its been settled between Steve and Barry. However, Steve is correct, as I did post this very same message some years ago, Oct 2003 as a matter of fact.

 

Thats when CS was at the Unique Performance for the GT500 E continuation grand opening / car show in Texas. As the norm, he was signing things for folks and when it was my turn to have my map light cover signed for my GLHS, he didn't recognize the part and asked what it was off of.

When I informed him that it was off one of his Omni's, he stated how much he liked his and that they were going to start reproducing the head again that was on his GLHS, which is the HH head.

As I stated that was some time ago, well before the TS forums were around and before SAI had partnered with Ford to produce the current line of Shelby Mustangs.

 

Steve was on the first user forums put up by Shelby Automobiles Inc. before TS forums was around and I posted there a few times regarding the possible repro of the HH head.

 

So to conclude, Steve's not the rumor spreader we thought he was ;) Carroll is............ :lol:

 

 

Dan Boyd

Member of SDAC

 

Now that rings a bell Dan! Now that you mention it, I do recall the thread where that news was discussed. Thanks for posting it up.

 

Barry

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Dunno about EvilBay, I'm a yard man myself ;) To make it even harder to source the heads, from what I've heard, the 'later' 16V heads 87,88 from 16V GTI's wont work. Gotta be 'early' 84-85 and I think only the Scirocco's got em then though not certain...

 

 

Alan

 

Thanks AJ. Maybe I'll put the word out to the yard rats next Thursday.

 

Steve

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I always check for the 84-86 16V V-Dubs, strangely the heads are always missing. One look a the the intake on them and you'd swear you are seeing double for the HH head :blink:

 

Alan

 

AJ

 

This what you're talking about?

 

Steve

 

57d4_1.JPG

Edited by shelbymotorsports

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Looks right but dunno for sure. I am trying to recall what the disparity between 'early' and 'late' was now. Something about the way the cams bolted down or were driven off a single sprocket with an accessory drive gear... Can't remember exactly only that the guys doing the research said late VW head valvetrain wouldn't work. Heck there are only 21 of the HH heads in existance, why are we barking up this tree? You have the backing and green light from the man to assemble another motor if parts can be sourced? May help if we had some exhaust manifolds :rolleyes:

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You have the backing and green light from the man to assemble another motor if parts can be sourced? May help if we had some exhaust manifolds :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps its the old man that wants another one, but thats just a rumor :hysterical:

 

Yup the exhaust part is already taken care of except for some porting. The intake is the current hold up but I'm starting to think of going with a HH Daytona 4x4 intake to speed things up.

 

I have a complete used HH head here that I was going to have custom valves and cams made from to be used on a NOS head but heck if I can walk into a VW parts department and get some workable valvetrain parts why not save time and some big bucks.

 

That's why I'm interested in the VW head so I can compare its valvetrain to the used HH valvetrain that I have.

 

 

So you'll have one for me by Thursday right?

 

Steve

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From what I've learned so far that VW 16v head was used on the GTI from 1987-90 and the Scirocco from 1986-88. It produced a whoppin 123hp for VW. Theres no replacement for displacement and I guess VW's 1.8 engine size shows it.

 

Steve

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