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sudden

We got some Competition!!!!

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Another Government Motors failure... the above link isn't working. :hysterical:

 

I actually found it...they redirected the link......www.camarosandmulletsforever.com.

 

:bag:

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Hey guys...I'm admittedly not much of a NASCAR fan, but today at the pizza place here in NJ. the wife and I watched the start of the race at Daytona. Was that a ZL1 pacing today?

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Hey guys...I'm admittedly not much of a NASCAR fan, but today at the pizza place here in NJ. the wife and I watched the start of the race at Daytona. Was that a ZL1 pacing today?

 

 

Nope, an SS.

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I'm surprised it could even get out of it's own way, much less those monsters trailing behind it... No accounting for taste either.... They should have had one of the new GTs out there leading the way. That track it super fast now.

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There is some sort of sweet sollis in knowing that it paced, and the top three finishers were Fords!!! :happy feet: :shift:

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Blah, blah, blah, the car that hasn't proven anything yet... is THE BEST!.... fantastic point. Bravo sir. Well done.

 

I do gotta say, this guy sure does have a knack for stoking a fire every time it's seemingly cold. Funny thing is... nearly all his posts 149 are about loving Chevy's... sounds like someone is lost on the way to pleasegodletcamarosbeawesomeagain.com :baby::headscratch:

 

 

 

Amazing. I have been on this board for years and I don't think I mentioned chevy until this recently. I prefer the GT500 over anything GM builds right now but I got sucked into this because people were acting like GM does not know how to build a car that can beat the GT500. What makes it worst is just one generation ago the Z28 was dominating its direct competition...the Mustang GT. How quickly they forget. (watch someone ignore the fact I am talking about performance and bring up sales)

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ALSO watch someone ignore that PLUMMETING sales speak DIRECTLY to the quality, and ultimately success, of a vehicle. I think everyone would agree that for the vast majority of cases, quality built, reasonably priced, well designed cars... do not get discontinued. ESPECIALLY when that badge carries a heritage of over 30 years. You've got to screw something up awful for them to throw away an icon like the Camaro. Did the "late" Z28 beat the Mustang GT performance-wise, sure... was it apparently unpopular enough or flawed enough in other ways to put a bullet between it's eyes? Yup. And I think most of us would agree that we'd all rather have a well rounded performance car, than a dogsled with a jet engine strapped to it (that does sound kinda fun though).

 

I say, build it... THEN praise it... IF it's deserving. I would never give Chevy... OR Ford... or any other manufacturer for that matter, praise for a vehicle that hasn't even hit the street yet. I was actually even quite skeptical of the GT350 until it came to hit the asphalt... was wrong on that one! I mean there is a big difference between excitement/anticipation and PRE-PROOF DECLARATION. Especially with GM's recent track history for bad decision making.

 

IF the physically tested reviews back up your premonitions, THEN I'll eat crow and recognize. I just don't believe I'll have to. Besides, if banking what isn't even on the street yet IS acceptable to "some", then I'm sure the next advancements in the GT500 will do what they have been going for some time now... making everyone else play catch-up. :shift: I would say It's like coming out of the pits and getting right up to speed as the leader comes by on the track... sure you're neck and neck with him... but your still a lap down.

 

...man I talk too much... there should be like a 30 second timer on posting... :doh:

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ALSO watch someone ignore that PLUMMETING sales speak DIRECTLY to the quality, and ultimately success, of a vehicle. I think everyone would agree that for the vast majority of cases, quality built, reasonably priced, well designed cars... do not get discontinued. ESPECIALLY when that badge carries a heritage of over 30 years. You've got to screw something up awful for them to throw away an icon like the Camaro. Did the "late" Z28 beat the Mustang GT performance-wise, sure... was it apparently unpopular enough or flawed enough in other ways to put a bullet between it's eyes? Yup. And I think most of us would agree that we'd all rather have a well rounded performance car, than a dogsled with a jet engine strapped to it (that does sound kinda fun though).

 

I say, build it... THEN praise it... IF it's deserving. I would never give Chevy... OR Ford... or any other manufacturer for that matter, praise for a vehicle that hasn't even hit the street yet. I was actually even quite skeptical of the GT350 until it came to hit the asphalt... was wrong on that one! I mean there is a big difference between excitement/anticipation and PRE-PROOF DECLARATION. Especially with GM's recent track history for bad decision making.

 

IF the physically tested reviews back up your premonitions, THEN I'll eat crow and recognize. I just don't believe I'll have to. Besides, if banking what isn't even on the street yet IS acceptable to "some", then I'm sure the next advancements in the GT500 will do what they have been going for some time now... making everyone else play catch-up. :shift: I would say It's like coming out of the pits and getting right up to speed as the leader comes by on the track... sure you're neck and neck with him... but your still a lap down.

 

...man I talk too much... there should be like a 30 second timer on posting... :doh:

 

 

 

Click...that was 29!! :hysterical:

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Amazing. I have been on this board for years and I don't think I mentioned chevy until this recently. I prefer the GT500 over anything GM builds right now but I got sucked into this because people were acting like GM does not know how to build a car that can beat the GT500. What makes it worst is just one generation ago the Z28 was dominating its direct competition...the Mustang GT. How quickly they forget. (watch someone ignore the fact I am talking about performance and bring up sales)

 

 

You sound like the Camaro has always dominated the Mustang. :rolleyes: I'll agree with you that the last gen. (junk) f-bodys outperformed the Mustangs during that era, but (just as quickly they forget) the previous gen. 5.0 Mustangs dominated the f-bodys during 1982-1993. And, right now (not 2012) the latest Mustang outperforms the latest Camaro.

Edited by Captain Beyond

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You can't praise a car that hasn't even hit the street especially when they are doing comparisons against was a "historical norm" Shelby, versus what is going to hit the street at the same time the crapmaro comes out. I have an '09, stock, it wasn't the car the '11/'12s are. You are referring to a car that has technology and setup in 2012, built SPECIFICALLY to compete with the GT500. Cars advance technologically. Lets see how it holds up with what is going to be coming out after it comes out. Evolution of both vehicles will tell, don't base you judgement on what WAS the norm in the past. If they had come out in '07 with this car, it would have been different, but, the GT500 has been at the top of it's class SINCE it came out. I doubt it will hold its own with a car that comes out at the same time or immediatly after. I have never liked GM products as they have historically came with too much plastic and they quickly become rattle traps. Ford has always built a better automobile all around. Even the more recent years, look at the cars that are broke down on the side of the road. If you watch over a period, you will see the biggest majority are newer GM products. I rarely see a newer Ford product on the side of the road. They are just more cheaply built. Also, why is it any type of GM performance vehicle requires so much more engine to compete with a "so called" lower class Ford? It is what it is... The only real good thing that I see of any GM performance vehicle is it drives Ford to make their products even better. Ford is on top, and I doubt any American car maker is ever gonna really catch up. Look at the Ford line-up: F-Series Trucks (outclass all the competition), Shelbys, Mustangs, Taurus, Focus, and Fusion. All great vehicles. What kind of a lineup does the competition have to compare to this? Ford is selling these fast as they can build them. And the prices of the Ford car lineup is affordable to the majority of the American public, but more importantly, dependable and durable.

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Sudden, your OP has created quite a stir here.

 

But to get back to topic for one quick second...."We got some Competition!!!!"

 

 

 

Quite simply put...I don't honestly think we do..........yet.

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This going off topic. Lets get back on topic. ....

 

Ford had a 300+ hp gt and GM decided to come out with a 400+hp SS that sent Ford back to the drawing board.

 

Based on that and the last time GM actually competed in the Muscle car arena (4th gen Camaro Z28) why would anyone think GM would come out with a ZL1 that is not faster than the GT500? That is what I just can't understand.

 

I know people are desperate to turn this into anything but a discussion on past present, and future performance. All I have been saying is based on what GM did and Ford did not do the last time they competed you can predict what will happen with the ZL1. The other question is will Ford even bother upgrading GT500 if its close to the end of its run? Will the ZL1 send the GT500 into retirement as second best? I hope not because the Shelby GT500 has been my favorite muscle car since I first saw it years ago.

 

 

I have also said a while back I hope GM comes out with a car better than the GT500 because it will cause Ford to improve the Shelby. Funny how some people here ignore those posts that clearly shows I prefer the GT500.

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You sound like the Camaro has always dominated the Mustang. :rolleyes: I'll agree with you that the last gen. (junk) f-bodys outperformed the Mustangs during that era, but (just as quickly they forget) the previous gen. 5.0 Mustangs dominated the f-bodys during 1982-1993. And, right now (not 2012) the latest Mustang outperforms the latest Camaro.

 

 

Where did I say the Camaro always dominated the Mustang. My point was how can people act like GM cannot build a car than compete with the Mustang when recent history has proved other wise? That is all. I got sucked into this thread because people just seem to dismiss GM. That made no sense to me. I know this is a Mustang board but still ....

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My favorite Camaro years have to be from 2002-2008! Camaro has always been the competitive leader, after all it was GMs brilliant idea to bring a retro designed pony car to market in 2005.

 

/sarcasm

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The other question is will Ford even bother upgrading GT500 if its close to the end of its run? Will the ZL1 send the GT500 into retirement as second best?

 

:hysterical: I'm not a GT500 owner, so I haven't kept up on the specifics, but am I wrong that the '10 was upgraded over the '09?... and then the '11 was upgraded over the '10? And again with your PROPHECY that the yet produced or tested ZL1 will send the GT500 into obsolescence! So funny... and ridiculous all at the same time! :confused::talkhand:

 

Funny how some people here ignore those posts that clearly shows I prefer the GT500.

 

 

Yes, they CLEARLY show you prefer the GT500... :hysterical::doh::hysterical2::hysterical3:

 

You know what though... you win. I'm bored with this thread.

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X Political & Religious Discussions Are Strictly Prohibited! X

 

Commentary That Threatens, Degrades a Race, Religion, National Origin, Our Beloved Mustangs or SHELBYS, Etc.......is also PROHIBITED!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don`t make Rob shut this off!!! :hysterical:

Edited by BIKEBOY

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When is this ZL1 supposed to be available for purchase. It seems as if GM has been delaying its release for a year now. Its not going to be a GT500 in the looks department but should be a screamer. Maybe Ford will bump up the 5.4L with a TVS, they will need it as the ZL1 will NOT come to market as a secaond place performer to the current GT500 set up, bet the farm on that one guys.

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This going off topic. Lets get back on topic. ....

 

Ford had a 300+ hp gt and GM decided to come out with a 400+hp SS that sent Ford back to the drawing board.

 

Based on that and the last time GM actually competed in the Muscle car arena (4th gen Camaro Z28) why would anyone think GM would come out with a ZL1 that is not faster than the GT500? That is what I just can't understand.

 

I know people are desperate to turn this into anything but a discussion on past present, and future performance. All I have been saying is based on what GM did and Ford did not do the last time they competed you can predict what will happen with the ZL1. The other question is will Ford even bother upgrading GT500 if its close to the end of its run? Will the ZL1 send the GT500 into retirement as second best? I hope not because the Shelby GT500 has been my favorite muscle car since I first saw it years ago.

 

 

I have also said a while back I hope GM comes out with a car better than the GT500 because it will cause Ford to improve the Shelby. Funny how some people here ignore those posts that clearly shows I prefer the GT500.

 

 

More recent history has proven otherwise. You just said that when Ford's 300+ hp wasn't enough for GM's 400+ hp, they simply upgraded (with still less hp than GM) to stay on top. What makes you think that Ford won't upgrade the GT500 if the ZL1 out performs it?

Ford did try to compete with the LS1 f-bodys with the introduction of the 03 Mach 1 and Cobra. The problem was the Crapmaro took a dirt nap by that time. If GM hadn't discountinued it, I seriously doubt that they would have had anything to run with the Terminator Cobras.

History has shown that Ford has upgraded the last model year before a new Mustang is introduced, such as the 1993 Cobra and 03-04 Cobra. If the 2012 ZL1 does outperform the GT500, I'll bet that Ford upgrades the 2013 GT500 (perhaps with a TVS) to be back on top, since it would be the last year of the current platform.

Edited by Captain Beyond

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When is this ZL1 supposed to be available for purchase. It seems as if GM has been delaying its release for a year now. Its not going to be a GT500 in the looks department but should be a screamer. Maybe Ford will bump up the 5.4L with a TVS, they will need it as the ZL1 will NOT come to market as a secaond place performer to the current GT500 set up, bet the farm on that one guys.

 

 

How do you figure the ZL1 will romp the GT500? They will both have the same hp, but expect the GT500 to be at least 200 lbs lighter. The only reason I see the ZL1 clearly beating the GT500 is if it's equipped with an automatic, which I don't think is available. I still think it will be a driver's race, especially both with 6 speeds.

Edited by Captain Beyond

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X Political & Religious Discussions Are Strictly Prohibited! X

 

Commentary That Threatens, Degrades a Race, Religion, National Origin, Our Beloved Mustangs or SHELBYS, Etc.......is also PROHIBITED!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don`t make Rob shut this off!!! :hysterical:

 

 

+1 :yup:

 

:hysterical::hysterical2:

Edited by Captain Beyond

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I like your original version better! ;) And I agree...

 

 

Thanks. :beerchug:

 

Sometimes I have to edit my posts because I don't want to offend someone too much :slapfight: or get banned. :hide:

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Thanks. :beerchug:

 

Sometimes I have to edit my posts because I don't want to offend someone too much :slapfight: or get banned. :hide:

 

 

I'm big on the that EDIT (cooldown) button as well.

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When is this ZL1 supposed to be available for purchase. It seems as if GM has been delaying its release for a year now.

 

I was buzzing down the highway yesterday when I noticed a white with red stripe Camaro coming up quick. Normally I don't pay attention to Camaros on the road but this one had a unique scoop on the hood so I thought I would let it catch me. As he pulled up beside me I noticed the badge on the front fender. It read ZL585. We gave each other the thumbs up and I pulled off the highway. I was surprised that he followed. We pulled over and he let me check out the car.

 

I didn't spend a lot of time checking it out but I was completely shocked at the poor fitment of the body panels. The front driver's side fender, hood and nose piece were all out of whack where they came together. The gaps in the body panels were noticeably off. I was initially excited to see what I thought was a "ram-air" style slot on the front nose between the grill and the hood. I said "cool, does this pop open when you nail the throttle like the old Z28?' He said, "no, that is a plastic plug GM used to cover the hole that is present in the SS Camaro's nose piece".

 

He told me he was #42 or #47 of 500 and couldn't decide between a GT500 or Camaro. He finally went with the "collectable" for a mere $70K.

 

I almost fell over.

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It is fun to go back through this thread and see all the people who said the ZL1 would not amount to much. I am for any car that makes Ford improve the already great GT500.

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