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So you mean to say if you created something all on your own and took a lot of pride in it, but wasn't able to possibly afford a patent on it, and someone copied your design but changed one little thing and then sold it to compete against you, you would be just fine with it and should accept it? That's like if you created a car but for some reason couldn't get a patent and someone took your exact design but just put a different emblem or internals in it, you would be up in arms saying they took your design and even though there's no patent they should respect your design. I understand its not illegal to take a non patentesd design but it is the idea of even the threads are exactly the same. There was no attempt at any innovation from SHR and figured JLT already had a great design so why not just "copy" them. If you really don't think that is a copy, then evidently your not looking at the same thing everyone else is.

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HONEY BADGER DON'T CARE. HONEY BADGER DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

 

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Edited by ViperNC

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So you mean to say if you created something all on your own and took a lot of pride in it, but wasn't able to possibly afford a patent on it, and someone copied your design but changed one little thing and then sold it to compete against you, you would be just fine with it and should accept it? That's like if you created a car but for some reason couldn't get a patent and someone took your exact design but just put a different emblem or internals in it, you would be up in arms saying they took your design and even though there's no patent they should respect your design. I understand its not illegal to take a non patentesd design but it is the idea of even the threads are exactly the same. There was no attempt at any innovation from SHR and figured JLT already had a great design so why not just "copy" them. If you really don't think that is a copy, then evidently your not looking at the same thing everyone else is.

in business these days, cant complain about someone "Stealing" a design and they go out make their own part. if he didn't want anyone to steal or copy his designed, he should of gotten the design patent, but he failed to do that. kicking and screaming like a child will not make other companies stop making their own versions of parts. part of the blame solely rests on JLT because they didn't protect themselves.

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I say ,if you don't like what Shelby Autos did ,maybe you should sale your car and stop buying things from them ,buy yourself a Chevy , :hysterical:

what would you have Shelby Autos do ? about this matter ,Tucker has been very disrespectful from the beginning , I say ,if you care to look at it in a different way ,that Shelby made his item better ,,they did make changes ,,it is not the same ,

by you saying they change some little things ,is like Jack Roush and, Steve Saleen stealing Carroll Shelby's idea on the mustang thing ,

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in business these days, cant complain about someone "Stealing" a design and they go out make their own part. if he didn't want anyone to steal or copy his designed, he should of gotten the design patent, but he failed to do that. kicking and screaming like a child will not make other companies stop making their own versions of parts. part of the blame solely rests on JLT because they didn't protect themselves.

 

You are right about that. If JLT would have got a patent for it this whole thing wouldn't have happened. So yes a lot of the blame for this whole thing is JLT failing to patent their product. I know he does think it is a respect thing that a fellow supposedly friend company won't take their design. But there isn't anything stopping SHR. So I guess he has a right to be upset, but yes he should have went straight to the company instead of airing everything over a forum.

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JLT should have patented the design, except I don't think it was their design. I read somewhere in the 668 posts that Ford actually designed it, no? But, yeah, you got a product, you protect it. Especially in this business. I mean, you criticize Shelby for this? Anybody remember Ford stealing the intermittent wiper technology from Greg Kinear? And I just thought he was a bad actor...who knew? I don't see anyone picketing Ford here, and they ruined that man's life. He lost his wife and children....time he will never get back. That was just dirty. Ford called it smart business. Just like their attempt to cut CS out on a 1984 GT350.

 

Tucker, out of curiosity, is Shelby using the same threading as SHR? I mean, THAT SHR lid was pretty compelling. It made me laugh.

Im not judging though, maybe SHR has a perfectly logical and rational explanation. OR, this thread gets entertaining again.

 

I said earlier that something beneficial could come from this thread- Carroll would tell you to protect your product, not just to keep people out of your pockets, but also to keep people you work closely with from having "the opportunity" to screw you over. He learned that from first hand experience, not simply because he was paranoid. Im a general contractor (roads and highways) by day. If i have a subcontractor that is suddenly spiking profit margin? Im going to cut him out and do the work myself. Does that make me an asshole? Maybe. But it's good business.

 

Bottom line for me is that I understand the anger for JLT. I appreciate the business decision of Shelby to roll out their own product. I see the angle of SHR using the path of least resistance in doing their own as well. If its not illegal, it is going to be exploited by "someone".

 

Lets not skim over the elephant in the room though my fellow enthusiasts. Profit.

I could have taken any one of these oil separators back into our CNC shop, had this built for about 35 bucks. They sell for like 5 times that?

Maybe we all should be the ones pissed off here. LOL. Everyone but Honey Badger.

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As Jay has decided to now make a run of all the forums in his free time, I have posted a straightforward and non-insulting response over at TMS. It encapsulates most of 30 pages here with one exception - the reason Jay has his new toy to make videos about...I'll repost that portion here to save everyone the trip.

 

Of course, when called out on FB over patent infringement and other issues by someone unrelated to either company, Jay's response was to berate the person asking about it, then ban them from his FB page, deleting the posts, but leaving his responses - strange...I was equally slammed for "never having designed anything" by a representative of his manufacturer, and not knowing the first thing about programming a machine tool, even though as an equally small-business owner we have 2 US patents and others on the way and I have been in the machine tool business since 1995, and my family since the 1940's. We've also been accused now of copying pulleys - round parts with a bearing hole in the center, even though some of them we produce for companies are produced to their engineering drawings and specifications, including tolerances, surface finish callouts, etc.. but due to non-disclosure agreements with our customers we cannot post the drawings online.

 

Anyway, here's the relevant part of our response:

 

"The piece shown in the video was one we made specifically for JLT, because this fight already went on for a while already back in ~April in the Shelby forum. We knew that they would be at our booth at some point during Mustang Week in July, hence why we made a "special" piece just for them to let them think they were being sneaky when sending a straw purchaser over to our booth on late Saturday to purchase one of our new units. We watched the piece walk back over to the JLT booth after "digging it out" of our trailer - because the chrome production piece on our table was ignored by the buyer ! The buyer was checking over his shoulder to see if we were watching as he left - we were. He was wearing a white golf cap and a red shirt, not that we noticed...

 

In hindsight, we probably should not have thrown gas on the fire in this manner since Jay was already upset and instead sent a production piece to him, but at the time it sounded like a good idea since we had already been the brunt of a lot of anger from Jay and had pretty much taken it just as a part of business. It probably wouldn't have mattered though, since he has publicly berated our production piece that is different than his previously in other forums as being a "bedazzled" version of his.

 

In the meantime though, if we were going to be accused of knocking off a part exactly, we decided to have some fun with it and show him how we could do it if we wanted to, just we choose not to. The video they took time to create and edit is the result you see with the piece in question."

 

So while it probably wasn't our best moment, sometimes you only can take so much before giving some back... it obviously has taken up quite a bit of Jay's time this week, so maybe it was worth it.

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Sorry to disappoint, but no, not again. We just saw that we're getting trashed by Jay at JLT all over the place after MW, and it was getting old so we responded at TMS then saw the newest video made its way over here so we just did a copy-paste of our response, which I think we'll continue to do as needed where we feel appropriate. We watched people get banned from JLT's FB page that didn't agree with him and brought up counterpoints including some of JLT's own indiscretions (patent infringements, etc.), but that of course is not in his agenda to talk about so they were berated, kicked around, and then banned. We already said what we felt was needed here prior to this latest flare up, so other than this we have nothing to add.

 

It's just a lot of drama and dirty laundry that has been building up for some time all coming out at once even though it shouldn't instead of being handled privately as it should have been before it ever had the chance to get started. Jay was told personally by me this was in play long ago before any piece was made for anyone (something he does not deny as true), yet instead of voicing concerns at that time, for whatever reason he just blew it off in passing conversation saying he did not care "as long as it doesn't look just like mine", which it does not, nor does it function like his either. Now he is claiming to be the victim, when the reality is indeed much different.

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Hmm, okay, that's kind of entertaining for you guys I guess, but for anyone that doesn't read your response or come on these specific forums, well, Im not sure it's going to help business a whole lot.

 

It's really just kind of sad, to me, because it looked like what once was a good and collaborative, dare I say mutually beneficial business and even personal relationship has turned into quite a nasty and public divorce. What a shame.

 

Well, good luck to all.

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I like playing in the lions den here, it's ok, but it's nice to see some here are not "Shelby blind" and I thank you.

 

Also nice to see Richard spouting off with no facts like he is on my Youtube page.

Let's clear things up Richard:

Shelby never came to me to make them, fact.

 

We will not roll over when copied, we will out the scum for all to see. Then you make the choice.

 

 

Saying you gave my guy the closest to mine is just stupid and wrong. If you were smart you would give him the one that looks the least like mine.

 

Also, what got me to do it was a customer came by the booth asking why we had a filter in ours. I explained and he pulled out yours, lol.gif

It was your full on "bedazzeled" JLT, dressed up on the out side, but all JLT on the inside. Lucky for me the guys from Metco (who makes our for us) were in the booth at the same time. We showed your customer how it was the same, the filter fit and the caps were interchangable. He walked away in discust.

 

Your a fraud and a weak innovator. This part is easily modified and made different just like I show in the video. Only 3 look alike, ours, Shelbys and yours. Ours came first.icon_mrgreen.gif

If I were making a new separator I would do so many things different. The fact that you copied some flaws is just funny.

Something you used to say about people who copied your door handles: "LOL, they even copied my mistake"

 

You know as well as I and tons of others you did this and it will hurt you. You should have done something different, it would have been easier on you.

 

You should be so proud for knocking off our product. Something to really teach the kid about. Can't beat'em, join'em boy

 

 

As for the threads, call Metco and ask them about it. Our threads are custom and yours are the same, hmmm

 

You can't get around facts Marcello, this didn't "just happen"

 

Oh and something I didn't mention in the video.

Dude, can't you make fittings that fit?doh.gif

Your fittings don't fit the hose, they are way too loose and they don't thread all the way in flush.

I guess you didn't have our fittings to copy??lol.gif

 

704073_10151605971692155_850564_o.jpg

 

Saying you offered to make them for me has nothing to do with this, but let's talk about that.

 

Your mad I never gave you work? Poor baby.

I have honor and respect.

I have Metco make all our aluminum products and that's it, end of story. I've had many offers to use other shops, but I'm loyal.

 

So don't mislead the public like your the saint and offered to work together.

I've bought, stocked and tried to sell your billet crap for years, still have door handles in stock I can't give away.

 

Your a joke Marcello and I will make it clear to everyone what you did.

 

Yes, we do sell thousands, just doubled production 2 months ago as a matter of fact, but this is fun. Outing copy cats to the public it fun.

Edited by Tucker

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Personally, I've lost complete respect for both of you for continuing this useless barrage on an open forum. I'm certain others have as well. I suggest you air out your differences elsewhere before your reputation continues to fall further than it already has.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

 

Don't care. Don't care. Don't care.

 

Signed,

 

Honey Badger

Edited by ViperNC

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We don't expect many of your to care, but it's our livelihood.

It may seem petty, but to us it's not.

 

Copy my hairstyle or buy the same wheels as me I'll be flattered, but copy my product to a tee and I'll out your a$$ to the public.

 

No logical person can look at these facts, pictures and video and say what was done was ok. If you can you were not going to buy a JLT product before this went down.

 

Enjoy your day.

Jay

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We're down to arguing about threads now?? Seriously?? Sheesh I have bolts that are interchangeable, maybe all the manufacturers should come on here & whine about who produced the first one. FFS!!

 

SHR legally did nothing wrong & with the possible exception of adding fuel to the fire with a deliberate copy being passed off as their actual product (sorry but JLT succeeded in drawing you down to their level) have conducted themselves like adults.

 

JLT may have a right to be upset but if it bothered them that much they should have patented their design. End of story. The rest has just been rather immature whining.

 

This thread should have died ages ago.

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As is our policy, we do not censor threads, but I will remind everyone that personal insults are not acceptable here.

Let's keep the conversation at a mature level. If *I* can do it, everyone else can, too.

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Jer

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Jer I am sure its extremely hard for you to hold back your thoughts.......I will say you are doing a great job and you are staying very professional.

 

In all honesty this thread is one of the funniest and most entertaining ones I have ever read.

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Jer I am sure its extremely hard for you to hold back your thoughts.......I will say you are doing a great job and you are staying very professional.

 

In all honesty this thread is one of the funniest and most entertaining ones I have ever read.

What he said. +1

 

It is pretty entertaining. Im sure someone will come on and ruin it all though. If we were in Chicago or Detroit, someone would already be dead.

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:nonono:

 

Jer should explain in detail how it all went down, now that would be good info.

 

No lies Jer, just the truth...

 

 

You again... Beating the dead horse? :doh:

 

I know the story... And truth be told... How long has your nose grown on this topic? :headscratch:

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Please please can we get off the who copied who and do a head to head test at the track? Both separators are out there now nothing will change that, so let's see how they do on the actual vehicles. Trying to replicate real world conditions on a bench is fine but still not the real thing. Hell bring along a Bobs unit too just to make it interesting.

Edited by mullens

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I hesitate to bring up a real world track comparison. It has been done though.

 

THIS thread is about Shelby releasing their SPP Oil Separator, which turned into "JLT Oil Separator patent woes".

 

JLT makes the best CAI out there, hands down. (Although I prefer a blue filter if anyone is reading this). Lol. Thank you for that tucker. And my paint matched redlines made me very happy today! Easy install! Thx twice!

So dont take my next sentence as a direct attack, but...

 

Oil separators? It's like selling flood insurance in Death Valley. So you get a little oil in the TB and SC. It's not the end of the world folks. Your probably gonna burn through two clutches, a tranny and half the rest of the drivetrain before enough oil makes its way to damage anything that route. I would almost label it "snake oil".

 

That said- some of you say enough is enough, I say- "lets keep this going!" It's been so boring on TS lately, I've had to resort to lurking other forums.

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Talk about throwing gasoline on the fire !!

Great job. I like it. :yahoo:

Too funny.

 

That crap happens everyday in business.

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I hesitate to bring up a real world track comparison. It has been done though.

THIS thread is about Shelby releasing their SPP Oil Separator, which turned into "JLT Oil Separator patent woes".

JLT makes the best CAI out there, hands down. (Although I prefer a blue filter if anyone is reading this). Lol. Thank you for that tucker. And my paint matched redlines made me very happy today! Easy install! Thx twice!

So dont take my next sentence as a direct attack, but...

Oil separators? It's like selling flood insurance in Death Valley. So you get a little oil in the TB and SC. It's not the end of the world folks. Your probably gonna burn through two clutches, a tranny and half the rest of the drivetrain before enough oil makes its way to damage anything that route. I would almost label it "snake oil".

That said- some of you say enough is enough, I say- "lets keep this going!" It's been so boring on TS lately, I've had to resort to

lurking other forums.

Wow 688 posts about snake oil people must have a lot of time on their hands lol. The question of whether oil separators are needed is right up there with the meaning of life but I saw firsthand how my intercooler looked like a gulf oil spill when I took my SC off.. not pretty. I'd rather not have oil where only air is supposed to be thank you.

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Here I thought playing the Beatles White Album backwards really did have words imbedded. Turns out I had Pareidolia.

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