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Stupid Question Do Our Cars Already Have

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I remember reading somewhere that for ford it was more of a bean counter thing as to install or not install them. Engineers felt they would not help or hurt the engine for the extra cost of having them so they decided they would not do them. Cheap insurance against a messy intercooler if you ask me

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Gonna install my Bob's Ultimate this weekend. I have the heat gun at the ready!

Heat gun works well for the "heat shrink hose clamps" but, FWIW, I recommend submersion in hot water to separate the stock PCV line from the valve. Good luck!

Edited by Norton

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Heat gun works well for the "heat shrink hose clamps" but, FWIW, I recommend submersion in hot water to separate the stock PCV line from the valve. Good luck!

I tried using hot water on the last bobs oil separator I had on my old car...it was the basic model. I didn't get anywhere with hot water. I tried running hot sink water over the line / valve, then I microwaved water to to almost boiling. I ran the water over the parts for 30-40 seconds and got nowhere. I ended up cutting the hose off the valve. Should I submerge the valve / hose and leave it for awhile?

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I remember reading somewhere that for ford it was more of a bean counter thing as to install or not install them. Engineers felt they would not help or hurt the engine for the extra cost of having them so they decided they would not do them. Cheap insurance against a messy intercooler if you ask me

I also heard it was a maintenance issue also. If it wasn't emptied then you could be clogging the line.

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Today I was looking at the two hoses where people install the separators. I think I see why the driver's side never has any oil in it. The passenger side tube connects to the intake in an area that's under vacuum when the car is running. The driver's side connects to the intake tube upstream of the throttle body, so that's not under vacuum. The driver's side lets filtered air into the crankcase to replace the air (and oil vapor) that the passenger side is vacuuming out. The driver's side would never have oil vapor going through it, only fresh air.

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I tried using hot water on the last bobs oil separator I had on my old car...it was the basic model. I didn't get anywhere with hot water. I tried running hot sink water over the line / valve, then I microwaved water to to almost boiling. I ran the water over the parts for 30-40 seconds and got nowhere. I ended up cutting the hose off the valve. Should I submerge the valve / hose and leave it for awhile?

Interesting. Hot water worked well for me. I brought the water to a boil in the microwave then submerged the parts and left them there for a few minutes. Removal still took some effort, but it disengaged without any damage. (If I had to guess, I'd say yours wasn't in the water long enough.)

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Today I was looking at the two hoses where people install the separators. I think I see why the driver's side never has any oil in it. The passenger side tube connects to the intake in an area that's under vacuum when the car is running. The driver's side connects to the intake tube upstream of the throttle body, so that's not under vacuum. The driver's side lets filtered air into the crankcase to replace the air (and oil vapor) that the passenger side is vacuuming out. The driver's side would never have oil vapor going through it, only fresh air.

On our dyno, using a 2013 Shelby 1000, we did some 15 minute pulls with aggressive boost, hitting well over 1170 HP to test the Shelby Oil Separator's restriction and oil capture (both are important!). We got a few teaspoons of oil in both sides, and saw negligable restriction, as we measured the vacuum drops pre and post install.

The magic question no one has asked is: Why did Shelby decide to manufacture their own separator? THAT's why. We needed something better for our best cars - we wanted to catch the maximum amount of oil without risking an expensive failure.

 

BTW, after all the REAL-WORLD testing WE did - the above dyno test, plus many more highway and city tests on over 3000 miles in Mustangs, both V6 and V8 configuration- the turkey baster/squirt bottle/air compressor tests on You Tube, etc were barely trivia to us. Cold liquid oil into a separator? Inserted after the PVC system of an idling low-power engine at low temperature?

 

 

Jer

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Real testing....very interesting....

 

Jer could you please elaborate on this comment? without risking an expensive failure.

 

What types of expensive failures could users be at risk of?

 

Thanks,

Kevin

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Jer,

Can you share additional information about your testing concerning oil separator vacuum restriction and possible failure conditions?

 

Thank you

Kevin

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I discussed this with Jer via PM. He shared some great details about their real world testing and failure scenarios concerning PCV vacuum restriction. If I install one AFTER my factory warranty has expired, I would certainly lean towards their unit given the testing they have completed with their design.

 

Kevin

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Received the passenger side kit today. Instruction 2 said to use thread sealer on barb fittings. What did you use? Number 8 said use hose clamper tool on clamps. Where do you get the clamps and tool? Some of you talk about putting the stock system back on if concerned about a warranty issue. How can you do this when step 5 says to cut out a 2 inch section? I wonder why some connections need a clamp and some don't? I thought this was to be a 20 second job. Help.

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Received the passenger side kit today. Instruction 2 said to use thread sealer on barb fittings. What did you use? Number 8 said use hose clamper tool on clamps. Where do you get the clamps and tool? Some of you talk about putting the stock system back on if concerned about a warranty issue. How can you do this when step 5 says to cut out a 2 inch section? I wonder why some connections need a clamp and some don't? I thought this was to be a 20 second job. Help.

Here is what I did: Get a heat gun or a really good hair dryer that will warm up the hose and make it pliable. The thread sealer (Teflon tape) is to be used on the threads that screw into the separator itself. Wrap the threads with the Teflon tape and install the barbed fittings. I turned mine with fingers until tight and then 1/4 turn with a wrench. Just don't over tighten. Then remove the hose and cut out the required section and then heat up the hose for the intake side of the oil separator and then slide it on. Do not heat up too much or it will become deformed. It should slide on with fairly easily and will conform to the shape of the barbs on the fitting. Repeat for the other side and then reinstall the hose with the separator installed. Wa-la. You're done.

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Some of you talk about putting the stock system back on if concerned about a warranty issue. How can you do this when step 5 says to cut out a 2 inch section?

 

You can order a replacement hose from the dealer for about $10. Buy one and put it in your parts cache.

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Thanks for the info. The pictures on this topic show the clamps installed. I called SA yesterday and they are sending the clamps and said they should have been included in the first mailing. They didn't know where to get the tool. I'll check local car part shops and see if they have them to loan. Could use regular hose clamps but they would look tacky. I will order the hose from the dealer. Thanks

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Installed the CS oil separator on Saturday morning. With the OEM type fittings from Shelby the installation was @ 2 minutes start to

finish. Didn't drive the car until Sunday when I went to a nearby car show. Drove speed limit w/cruise and stayed out of the boost on the way over, took it nice and easy....got into the boost a bit on the way home.....66 miles round trip and 1 teaspoon of oil in the separator. I was actually surprised at the amount of oil but good to know it's doing the job.

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I get some oil in the passenger side separator but none on drivers. I drive the car about every weekend and kick in the supercharger a few times when driving. Nothing crazy but still get some oil.

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Today I was looking at the two hoses where people install the separators. I think I see why the driver's side never has any oil in it. The passenger side tube connects to the intake in an area that's under vacuum when the car is running. The driver's side connects to the intake tube upstream of the throttle body, so that's not under vacuum. The driver's side lets filtered air into the crankcase to replace the air (and oil vapor) that the passenger side is vacuuming out. The driver's side would never have oil vapor going through it, only fresh air.

 

As you may have seen from Jer's follow-up post to yours, that isn't completely true.

 

For the most part it is BUT....yeah, there's always that "but"!

 

Under normal operation the intake manifold vacuum is evacuating the HC & CO vapors out of the crankcase, past the PCV valve (a one-way "check valve") and into the intake manifold rather than allowing them to escape into the atmosphere like the old "Road Draft Tube Systems" used to do. But under severe use/heavy load conditions, when the crankcase vapors created by piston ring blow-by exceeds the capability of the low pressure (i.e. vacuum) on the PCV side of the system, the fresh air intake that WAS allowing clean filtered air into the crankcase now acts as a "relief" and the excess vapors now reverse flow and get pushed out into the intake tract by the positive pressure that is now present in the crankcase.

 

Hence, the reason Jer was seeing oil on the intake side.

 

And forced induction is going to exceed the PCV system much sooner and more often than a naturally aspirated engine so it is needed more so on a supercharged engine than on a NA engine, which may never see reverse flow (although high RPM, high compression 'race' engines will regularly see it).

 

 

HTH,

Phill

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Yes Jer had a great follow-up to my post. I realize now that the crankcase can become pressurized under heavy-throttle/heavy-boost conditions and that will force oil vapors into the driver's side tube. I don't drive my car hard enough to worry about oil vapors on the driver's side, but a Shelby-brand separator for the passenger side is on my to-do list.

 

Here's another interesting oil vapor-related tidbit I recently stumbed across that I'd never heard about before. There's actually a vacuum tube connected to the lowest point of the induction tract to pull any condensed oil from there back into the intake:

http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/m5lp-1203-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-trinity-5-8l-v8/photo-gallery/#34

 

So the Ford engineers realize oil does make it's way into the intake and they've taken steps to prevent it from building up and causing trouble, but I'm convinced it's best to prevent it from getting there in the first place with an oil separator.

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Here's another interesting oil vapor-related tidbit I recently stumbed across that I'd never heard about before. There's actually a vacuum tube connected to the lowest point of the induction tract to pull any condensed oil from there back into the intake:

http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/m5lp-1203-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-trinity-5-8l-v8/photo-gallery/#34

 

 

 

Great article!

 

I always enjoy learning 'trivial' stuff like this. Trivial but so important.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Phill

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Yes Jer had a great follow-up to my post. I realize now that the crankcase can become pressurized under heavy-throttle/heavy-boost conditions and that will force oil vapors into the driver's side tube. I don't drive my car hard enough to worry about oil vapors on the driver's side, but a Shelby-brand separator for the passenger side is on my to-do list.

 

Here's another interesting oil vapor-related tidbit I recently stumbed across that I'd never heard about before. There's actually a vacuum tube connected to the lowest point of the induction tract to pull any condensed oil from there back into the intake:

http://www.mustangandfords.com/news/m5lp-1203-2013-ford-shelby-gt500-trinity-5-8l-v8/photo-gallery/#34

 

So the Ford engineers realize oil does make it's way into the intake and they've taken steps to prevent it from building up and causing trouble, but I'm convinced it's best to prevent it from getting there in the first place with an oil separator.

 

I wasn't able to find any information about the vacuum tube you mentioned in the link you supplied. Can you post a direct link to the referenced tube?

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I wasn't able to find any information about the vacuum tube you mentioned in the link you supplied. Can you post a direct link to the referenced tube?

 

Mine opened up on the photo and caption with the tube....

 

EDIT: Photo 34 of 54

 

 

Phill

Edited by 2010KonaBlueGT

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Thanks Phill,

Mine opened up on the a page with 12 pictures, none of which where the correct one. Ford calls it a "SC Bubbler Tube" in their service manual.

 

With Phill's help.

 

Picture

post-37352-0-14875900-1413831051_thumb.jpg

Edited by Snoopy49

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The link I posted has a "/#34" at the very end. Most browsers will see that and take you to picture 34 on the page. But some browsers just drop you at the first picture. You need to navigate to the 34th picture on the page to see the picture of the tube.

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So if you're a "belt and suspenders" type of person, you could put oil separators on both PCV tubes and the SC bubbler tube. :)

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The link I posted has a "/#34" at the very end. Most browsers will see that and take you to picture 34 on the page. But some browsers just drop you at the first picture. You need to navigate to the 34th picture on the page to see the picture of the tube.

 

The link works on my laptop with Windows XP but not on my Desktop with Windows 8.1.

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