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ilmor

Motor Trend Pits Camaro 1Le Vs Mustang With Performance Pack, Surprises Ensue

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Well the 2 second diff on a track don't mean much to me but that Mustang is just plain out Fugly!!...the line from the rear of the door forward is to darn flat like a board then it drops right at the front

 

to a bulbus nose in short the car looks odd period!!....the side view sucks and from the front sucks the rear is nice. JMO

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Tires and dampers. Use the money saved by buying the stang to upgrade and it'll be a diff outcome.

 

I'd possibly pick the Camaro if I were shopping though.

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For the first time (maybe ever) the Mustang and Camaro are apples to apples. You can't get much closer than they are right now. Yes, the Camaro does perform better through the turns and is more planted. With that said, they have been using the IRS and tuning/developing the suspension for a few years and have a head start on the Mustang. Maybe Ford is going a different direction with the suspension on the GT and waiting for the premier Mustangs to come out with the better set up. Who knows. Bottom line is everything he is mentioning about the Mustang's handling compared to the Camaro can easily be modified/tuned to perform equally well. Let's face it: they are using the same rear end so logic would tell you they should be able to perform the same if set up properly. The Camaro shocks and springs are better and their track pack costs more. Go figure. Not bad for the first year run with an IRS in the Mustang. Pobst said it all when lapping around in the Mustang: "Fun car! More fun than it ever has been really".

 

I still say it will perform great on track when the racers get their hands on it. :)

Edited by ViperNC

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Well the 2 second diff on a track don't mean much to me but that Mustang is just plain out Fugly!!...the line from the rear of the door forward is to darn flat like a board then it drops right at the front

 

to a bulbus nose in short the car looks odd period!!....the side view sucks and from the front sucks the rear is nice. JMO

Tell us how you really feel! :lol:

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I agree they have really messed up the look of a mustang on the 2015 model

It looks too much like the camaro which is not good at all,,,,

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I agree they have really messed up the look of a mustang on the 2015 model

It looks too much like the camaro which is not good at all,,,,

Let's not turn this performance discussion into a debate about whether or not people like the look of the new Mustang. There are plenty of other threads about that topic. Back on topic please.

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I think cosmetics is the ONLY debate to have, performance is too close to make a purchase decision off of unless you are a person that would refuse to swap dampers... It's pretty even except cosmetics.

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I think cosmetics is the ONLY debate to have, performance is too close to make a purchase decision off of unless you are a person that would refuse to swap dampers... It's pretty even except cosmetics.

You don't want to point out the positives of the new Mustang's performance? Straight line, the Mustang still won which should appease all the old school drag racers.... Cosmetically, the interior of the new Mustang also got better reviews. Wish my '09 was that nice inside.

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I bet most drag racers aren't too happy to have a heavy IRS honestly. It's all just too close and the test is irrelevant for most enthusiasts who mod the hell out of their cars anyway. i didn't look at the interior but I do wish I had recaros in my 07.

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I bet most drag racers aren't too happy to have a heavy IRS honestly. It's all just too close and the test is irrelevant for most enthusiasts who mod the hell out of their cars anyway. i didn't look at the interior but I do wish I had recaros in my 07.

I wish I had Recaros, too!

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This really isn't an apples to apples comparison. GM has had a handful of years to refine, Ford has not. The Mustang has nothing more than larger brakes and antisway bars where the Camaro has better tires, struts/shocks, and springs in addition to the brakes and antisway bars. And, a 3:75 rear in the Mustang to a 3:90 in the Camaro. Even with all of this, it's not much of an advantage. Now, the Mustang has the weight and power advantage, but that's not by much so I would call the results a draw on paper.

 

Now it's up to the buyer to decide.

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Tell us how you really feel! :lol:

 

 

Really I feel bad about even posting that but I am disappointed because I totally had intentions of having a new Mustang when the new Shelby came out but not now...there's one at my local dealer

 

and I agree the interior is awesome much better than my 07 GT500...like I said in my post 2 seconds on a track means nothing on the street IMO the normal every day driver will never feel that

 

anyway..you did mention it was their first year for the IRS in fact it's not my 04 Cobra had the IRS suspension as did the 03 and if not mistaken the 99-2000 SVT Cobra did also...I think Mustang

 

went with a more streetable softer ride as apposed to the Camaro that is firmer on the streets but slightly better at the track in that case give me the Mustang for every day driving..the thing I hate about

 

the Camaro is the interior it sucks!! other than that the rest of the car is ok AGAIN JMO.

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This really isn't an apples to apples comparison. GM has had a handful of years to refine, Ford has not. The Mustang has nothing more than larger brakes and antisway bars where the Camaro has better tires, struts/shocks, and springs in addition to the brakes and antisway bars. And, a 3:75 rear in the Mustang to a 3:90 in the Camaro. Even with all of this, it's not much of an advantage. Now, the Mustang has the weight and power advantage, but that's not by much so I would call the results a draw on paper.

 

Now it's up to the buyer to decide.

OK.... it's granny smith apples vs. red delicious apples. I guess my point is the two cars are about as comparable as they ever have been. To the point you're making and I made previously, set the Mustang up properly and it would be a photo finish at the line.

 

 

anyway..you did mention it was their first year for the IRS in fact it's not my 04 Cobra had the IRS suspension as did the 03 and if not mistaken the 99-2000 SVT Cobra did also...I think Mustang

 

You are correct on the old Cobra. It did have IRS. This is the first time the Mustang has had an IRS across all models.

 

So let's objectively look at the positives here: The new Mustang may not be attractive to everyone, but the first year attempt to go toe to toe with the Camaro which has a head start on refining the handling was pretty impressive. Wait another year and retest and I'm willing to bet the cars will be neck and neck on the road course, too. And the interior is a nicer place to be for day to day driving. So while the Camaro performed better on track, I say the result for the Mustang is very good and you have a professional racing driver stating the new Mustang is the best Mustang he has ever driven in stock trim (I'm interpreting and paraphrasing). I call that a win.

Edited by ViperNC

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OK.... it's granny smith apples vs. red delicious apples. I guess my point is the two cars are about as comparable as they ever have been. To the point you're making and I made previously, set the Mustang up properly and it would be a photo finish at the line.

 

You are correct on the old Cobra. It did have IRS. This is the first time the Mustang has had an IRS across all models.

 

So let's objectively look at the positives here: The new Mustang may not be attractive to everyone, but the first year attempt to go toe to toe with the Camaro which has a head start on refining the handling was pretty impressive. Wait another year and retest and I'm willing to bet the cars will be neck and neck on the road course, too. And the interior is a nicer place to be for day to day driving. So while the Camaro performed better on track, I say the result for the Mustang is very good and you have a professional racing driver stating the new Mustang is the best Mustang he has ever driven in stock trim (I'm interpreting and paraphrasing). I call that a win.

 

 

 

I agree read all my post I did say it was better inside than my 07 GT500 was and that as far as the handling goes it matters not because 2 seconds on the track means dick on the streets

 

IMO...I'm also sure the IRS system is far ahead of what was on my Cobra...that's my positives!!..I did watch some road tests where they did say the Mustang rode very smooth so for anyone

 

that like the looks without doubt are going to get a more refined Mustang than in the past.

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I like the looks of the 2015 but still not as much as the 2013 and 2014 Mustangs. I have seen the 15 several times now and every time I see it I like it more and more. The interior is awesome and is the best interior so far. I might get one in the future. I would never get a camaro since the interior sucks so bad. I would actually like to get a Challenger someday I like the large room to haul the family in

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I still hate the looks of the 2015 and without the looks I could honestly care less what the performance is or,is not To me the performance of the car starts with the looks first.

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Thinking about this further - one thing not discussed is tires. Tire choice alone can make a huge difference. I wonder if the Camaro simply had grippier rubber. I've always felt that, when these tests are performed, they should mount the same tires on both cars so that can be factored out of the equation.

 

edit - Boris did mention tires in the above post; sorry about that....

 

Also, re looks...I actually like the 2015 Mustang looks. I would not say I like it better than my 2014, just good looking in a different way...like two different hawt models! :-P

Edited by ilmor

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Thinking about this further - one thing not discussed is tires. Tire choice alone can make a huge difference. I wonder if the Camaro simply had grippier rubber. I've always felt that, when these tests are performed, they should mount the same tires on both cars so that can be factored out of the equation.

 

 

Agree. Go one step further, I'd like them to run slicks on track and see how both cars perform.

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By the way the Camaro is made in Canada.

 

 

Keep North America strong ... great to see the pony car wars are going strong.

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I still hate the looks of the 2015 and without the looks I could honestly care less what the performance is or,is not To me the performance of the car starts with the looks first.

This ^^^^^^^.

 

I tried hard to like the Fox cars - I even had one for a while. I hated the SN95 - too round and bubbly. The New Edge cars were a step in the right direction and I find myself pretty much liking the look if modded to my taste. When the S197 came out, I thought - FINALLY, Ford is going in the right direction, and with the Shelby front clip, it was almost perfect. When the 2010's came out, I mentally committed to getting back into the Mustang frame of mind again.

 

Now, with the 2015, I'm completely unexcited about the car. I've seen one in the flesh (two actually - a black GT and an orange V6), and while I don't mind the rear end of the car, the front does NOT scream "Mustang" to me, and the rear end doesn't even come close to making up for that.

 

I think it all comes down to a person's own automotive history. IMHO, the older the person is, and if that person isn't "world-economy" oriented (and if they ever owned a Gen 1 Mustang), the less likely they are to like the 2015. I'm solidly in that group.

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This ^^^^^^^.

 

I tried hard to like the Fox cars - I even had one for a while. I hated the SN95 - too round and bubbly. The New Edge cars were a step in the right direction and I find myself pretty much liking the look if modded to my taste. When the S197 came out, I thought - FINALLY, Ford is going in the right direction, and with the Shelby front clip, it was almost perfect. When the 2010's came out, I mentally committed to getting back into the Mustang frame of mind again.

 

Now, with the 2015, I'm completely unexcited about the car. I've seen one in the flesh (two actually - a black GT and an orange V6), and while I don't mind the rear end of the car, the front does NOT scream "Mustang" to me, and the rear end doesn't even come close to making up for that.

 

I think it all comes down to a person's own automotive history. IMHO, the older the person is, and if that person isn't "world-economy" oriented (and if they ever owned a Gen 1 Mustang), the less likely they are to like the 2015. I'm solidly in that group.

 

 

I agree the Fox bodied car was the ugliest Mustang ever I really didn't care for any of them till 99 then 05 they hit a home run with the Mustang.

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Agree. Go one step further, I'd like them to run slicks on track and see how both cars perform.

 

 

 

 

Tires do make a difference but you all heard Randy say the Camaro felt FIRM meaning the suspension is set up for the track and the Mustang rode smooth and leaned more in the turns

 

meaning the Mustang's suspension was set up more for the streets.

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Tires do make a difference but you all heard Randy say the Camaro felt FIRM meaning the suspension is set up for the track and the Mustang rode smooth and leaned more in the turns

 

meaning the Mustang's suspension was set up more for the streets.

Yup. That is pretty evident. Ford should definitely address for the 2016 car and resolve for their track pack. If they are going to make a car with a track pack, it should not be more set up for the street IMO. Kind of defeats the purpose.

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