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Michelin death wobble??

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There is a thread on another forum about some anomaly with 295 Michelin Pilot Sports on 11" rims that induces some phenomenon called the Michelin death wobble where the car violently hooks left to right and sways back and forth under acceleration and just wondered if anyone on this forum had experienced this.

 

Supposedly only happens with the 295 size Mich on 11" rims and nothing else. I am not saying these folks are wrong but it's just hard to imagine some inherent problem with a Michelin. I have been feathering the throttle on my 14 for 3 years waiting to get some rubber on the ground and what do I buy...295 Mich and some 11" Forgestars. Don't have them on yet but just curious if others have had this happen.

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I've got 285's on the rear and never had an issue. I have a hard time believing this would be caused by a tire unless it was not true/out of round. What you are describing sounds more like someone driving a car with stock suspension who can't control their car. Call me crazy..... I'll be curious to learn if you have an issue when you mount these tires/wheels.

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A good friend has experienced it multiple times with his 2013. His only happened at high end speed. The car is tracking just fine and then the rear starts to dance. He says it will make you pucker up. I've read multiple threads about it and appears to only be the 295. I've also read Michelin is coming out with a new version of the tire.

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I have experienced this on my Wide body, but only under hard acceleration, and if I back off it settles down. I thought perhaps I shifted from true center on the rear end. I plan to wait and see if it occurres with new tires. I do not have the same issue with my sig edition which has 295's I believe. They are 345's on the WB, but have some wear.

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I appreciate the feedback. I've had my Michelins for 3 years so no taking them back... I had never gotten them on since I was stubborn and just wasn't going to put them on an undersized wheel even though many folks said 295's on the OEM 9.5's worked fine. I finally bought some wheels and now read about the "death wobble"... I guess all I can do is try it and see what happens. I know one thing for sure there is also a pucker factor involved with the OEM Goodyears when you try to merge on the Interstate in front of oncoming cars and gas it a little too much and break loose. Given Michelins reputation for quality I just can't believe the problem is with the tires. You would think they check them for balance and trueness before they go out the door at factory. My belief is it's something with the traction control getting confused, improper inflation or something out of square with the suspension. Maybe an adjustable panhard bar is in my future.

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Some guys over here in Germany experienced the same problem with the Michelin tires - especially at WOT / Highspeed Autobahn.

 

It seems that the stock LCAs are to weak (GT500 with torque >600 ft lb and sticky tires), so changing them will add some stability.

The Michelin Pilot (in some flavours / dimensions) seems to have a weak / soft tire wall, so low tire pressure will make the wobble worse.

Some of the guys who are going >185mph on the Autobahn have about 40PSI tyre pressure (cold tyre).

Some say that the wobble will be more / comes back if the tyre wears down.

 

hth

 

PS: I'm assuming everything at the rearend of your car is fine (dampers, bushings, etc.)

Edited by dr-frank-n-furter

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You found someone that has them and the death wobble.

 

I have MPSS 295/35/20 in K1 105Y load range on 11" rims. The problem is also reported with this tire on the 9.5 OEM rims as well.

 

I guarantee you 100% it is the tires. I ran the OEM rims and GYs with no issue. Went to CS2 rims with Nitto Invo and no problems. Upgraded to SS take-off rims from ebay with the MPSS and death wobble. Swapped the Invos to the SS rims and wobble is gone. Never changed the suspension through this.

 

The DW comes on about 80 mph when floored. It simply feels like the back end is slamming back and forth violently. You can't drive it and the car feel like it is going to end up in a ditch. Unless you experience it, you won't understand. I've been around many cars on the street, drag racing and open tracking. Never felt anything like it.

 

I look forward to your experience.

 

Tom

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The 105Y Ferrari tire is exactly what I have... I wonder if the "death wobble" could be confined to a certain batch of 295 Michelins? I joined this forum 5 years ago as well as the fordgt500 forum a month earlier and have never read a word about this phenomenon till just recently even though I've read a thousand threads about wheels and tires. All this time I have been under the impression MPSS were the best you could get so that's what I bought. I have read that SOME people that mounted 295's on undersized OEM 9.5 rims experienced a wobble but the majority said they had no problems. This is really frustrating chasing traction with these cars. I guess all I can do is mount them and see what happens. Hopefully I won't put it in a ditch running 80 but hate to throw away a $900+ pair of tires.

Edited by blk12svt

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The 105Y Ferrari tire is exactly what I have... I wonder if the "death wobble" could be confined to a certain batch of 295 Michelins? I joined this forum 5 years ago as well as the fordgt500 forum a month earlier and have never read a word about this phenomenon till just recently even though I've read a thousand threads about wheels and tires. All this time I have been under the impression MPSS were the best you could get so that's what I bought. I have read that SOME people that mounted 295's on undersized OEM 9.5 rims experienced a wobble but the majority said they had no problems. This is really frustrating chasing traction with these cars. I guess all I can do is mount them and see what happens. Hopefully I won't put it in a ditch running 80 but hate to throw away a $900+ pair of tires.

Send them back and get the 285's. Love mine.....

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I doubt they would take them back. I bought them at the Ford dealer where since 2008 I've bought 2 Shelbys, 2 F250's and just recently a new Expedition, so maaaaybe they'll consider me a good customer and give me a break... I actually bought the tires 3 years ago then never could make up my mind which wheels to buy and they have been laying in the shop ever since, still with stickers on them.

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I stopped using my Mich Pilot Super Sports at the track because they felt so wobbly. They're a good around town and highway tire, but when you push them, they can't keep up. The problem isn't the tire's size. It's the tire's construction. Mine are a one ply sidewall. It's just plain soggy. I tried increasing the air pressure to compensate for the sidewall but that just lost contact patch. I'll never buy a one ply sidewall tire for a performance car again, no matter who's name is on the sidewall.

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I have been running these tires (295/35/20) for about 4 years now and never had any problems. Have been at 700hp for about 2 years. Now Michelin does have different tires designed for different vehicles. Could it be that the wrong tires might be on these cars that have the death wobble? I've never had that experience. I have heard that we are not supposed to run the Ferrari spec tires on our car. Not exactly sure what the difference may be but that's what I have heard. Now I do have to say I tend to not really get on the car very much. So I don't really have that situation very often where I will break the rear end loose.

 

What other tires would be a good substitute? Because it is getting to the time where I will be looking for new tires.

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I tend to over analyze things and that's probably what I am doing here. For 5 years all I have read is MPSS are great tires and it seemed half the people with GT500's, that had changed their tires, were running them. The other half were running Nitto or Toyo and they liked theirs as well. Maybe tires are like motor oil. We seem to become loyal to a brand and stay there for life. I am a Penzoil guy, my dad was Valvoline. Not saying the wobble doesn't happen but in reality there hasn't been all that many people that have actually experienced it. I have no intention of ever tracking my car. All I would like to do is at least be able to use 3/4 throttle rather than 1/2 throttle. The day will never come that I'll be sidestepping the clutch doing burnouts or trying to see if I can hit 200 mph. Again thanks to all for your input, discussion is a good thing.

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For comparison, I had Nitto NT05's before the Michs. The Nittos never displayed any of the tendencies on the track that the Michs did. In hindsight, I wish I had stuck with the Nittos. I expect the Mich cup tires would give better results than the super sports.

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Maybe running the Ferrari spec tire is the issue. That is what mine were. I was quite disappointed in them since I really like the looks of them and extra width over a traditional 295/35 without the height.

 

Let's hear your results.

 

Tom

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Got one of the 295 105Y Ferrari Wobblers? mounted yesterday and at least the fit is perfect.... About 1/2" clearance between the tire and the shock dust cover on the inside and it doesn't stick out past the body on the outside. Just what I was hoping for. Three more to mount and get on and we'll see what happens.

 

 

IMG_0638_zpskh2jepfv.jpg

 

IMG_0630_zpsglvdn3jj.jpg

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I was reading the thread today because I too am looking to purchase some Michelin Super Sport tires for the new Shelby Venice rims I just purchased. I was told that Michelin is phasing out the current Super Sport tire for the new PS4 tire. I am waiting for the new Michelin Super Sport PS4 to be available to install on these rims. I hope/wonder if they would potentially have this death wobble you mention? Hopefully the issue has been corrected in the new tire if it really is a tire issue.

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I am looking to go with the Shelby recommendations for the tire size on the Venice rims. 275/35/20 on the front and 305/30/20 on the rear. Anybody have any experience with this tire/rim set-up on a 2007 500?

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I am looking to go with the Shelby recommendations for the tire size on the Venice rims. 275/35/20 on the front and 305/30/20 on the rear. Anybody have any experience with this tire/rim set-up on a 2007 500?

 

Good luck to you sir. I still don't know anymore than I did last week. If Winter would ever get over I would get the tires on and report back with the results assuming I don't put the thing in a ditch and flip it or something...

 

Also, unless things have changed with the updated Michelin you speak of I didn't think Michelin made a 305. I was thinking they went from 295 to 315, skipping the 305. I could be wrong.

Edited by blk12svt

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There is a thread on another forum about some anomaly with 295 Michelin Pilot Sports on 11" rims that induces some phenomenon called the Michelin death wobble where the car violently hooks left to right and sways back and forth under acceleration and just wondered if anyone on this forum had experienced this.

 

Supposedly only happens with the 295 size Mich on 11" rims and nothing else. I am not saying these folks are wrong but it's just hard to imagine some inherent problem with a Michelin. I have been feathering the throttle on my 14 for 3 years waiting to get some rubber on the ground and what do I buy...295 Mich and some 11" Forgestars. Don't have them on yet but just curious if others have had this happen.

Happens on the 315 size also, ask me how I know :whistling:

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I am looking to go with the Shelby recommendations for the tire size on the Venice rims. 275/35/20 on the front and 305/30/20 on the rear. Anybody have any experience with this tire/rim set-up on a 2007 500?

 

I know that is what they recommend but the 275/35 is going to have more sidewall and taller than 305/30. I just can't have that aesthetically.

 

Tom

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Finally got my wheels and tires mounted and on but so far no death wobble. Hammered it at about 55-60 in 3rd gear and ran it up to about 90 and smooth as can be. It was biting and scratching for traction trying to break loose but no side to side motion or wobbles that I could feel, at least this time. Kind of strange the first ride felt real choppy but another ride yesterday was very smooth so I guess I am happy. Maybe the tires were just stiff and needed run in a little.

 

 

IMG_0721_zpsfyruyjak.jpg

Edited by blk12svt

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Call me crazy, but I think you'll be fine. Good luck and enjoy the drive.

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Thanks Viper. I sure feel more confident now. It's way better than it was with the OEM Goodyears.

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Thanks Viper. I sure feel more confident now. It's way better than it was with the OEM Goodyears.

Oh.... I could tell you some stories about those Goodyears! Never again. I know my Michelin's are not the same size, but I guess I'm brand loyal. I've used Michelin's for track tires/road tires for auto and motorcycle, mountain bike tires, and road bike tires. Never had a problem with any application and always found them to be very predictable. Go find some twisty roads and throw your car hard into a corner. The grip is very inspiring. They may not be the best for hard launches or drag racing. Best of luck!

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Same for me. Every car or truck I've owned in the last 30+ years, except a BOSS 302 that got TA radials, I've converted to Michelins when they needed tires. Last two F250's I've bought, an 08 and 14, came from the factory with Michelins. I always considered them the best tire you could buy. I think you are right though about launching and drag racing. Every time I would get heavy on the throttle with the OEM Goodyears the car would try to get sideways. Now however when you gas it it will still break loose in 2nd but it goes straight.

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I finally got the rims and tires I wanted mounted. Here are some pics. I had the car lowered with the ford racing lowering springs, maximum motorsport camber/caster kit, and adjustable pan-hard bar for the alignment. These are the staggered Venice wheels mounted with the new Michelin Super Sport 4-s tires. 275/35/20 on the front and 305/30/20 on the rears. So far so good. I haven't really gotten into it yet, so I don't know about any death wobble, but I'll keep you all posted if something happens.

20170521 193157[6271]

20170521 192811

20170521 184423

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I've been on at least half a dozen rides since I got the Michelins on and always have to wind it up once or twice through 2nd. and 3rd. and still no death wobble for me. Maybe they don't bite as good as a Toyo or Nitto but I am not going to be entering any drag races and I couldn't be happier with the results.

 

When I had the OEM Goodyears on it would always kick the rear out to the right and would have come around if you didn't let off rendering the car pretty much useless unless it was just a way to get to work. Now when you punch it it goes straight as an arrow. I can't fathom a guess as to why some folks experience the death wobble thing and some do not. Bad batch of tires? Something off in the suspension? Something off with the Nannys? I don't know. I am just happy mine are working like they are supposed to.

Edited by blk12svt

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I've been on at least half a dozen rides since I got the Michelins on and always have to wind it up once or twice through 2nd. and 3rd. and still no death wobble for me. Maybe they don't bite as good as a Toyo or Nitto but I am not going to be entering any drag races and I couldn't be happier with the results.

 

When I had the OEM Goodyears on it would always kick the rear out to the right and would have come around if you didn't let off rendering the car pretty much useless unless it was just a way to get to work. Now when you punch it it goes straight as an arrow. I can't fathom a guess as to why some folks experience the death wobble thing and some do not. Bad batch of tires? Something off in the suspension? Something off with the Nannys? I don't know. I am just happy mine are working like they are supposed to.

Glad you are pleased with the Michelins. I agree they are not drag racing tires, but through the corners and if you do a track day they will outperform most other options.

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