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#1
Ok, so this issue has perplexed me for over 3 years now. I picked up a rebuilt / salvage title 07 GT500 back in 2015. Everything is near perfect however when I wholeshot the car my guages, dash lights, ABS, and stereo power cycle. It's quite distracting and upsetting when it happens as it's usually when I'm trying to enjoy the power this beast has. I've taken it to the local speed shop who wants a ton of money to analyze the electronics and Dyno the car.. 

So I've physically checked the ground connections which seem ok (no multimeter testing though). considering it's an RPM triggered event I'm suspecting that it ISN'T a ground issue.

I've disengage the ABS because when the power cycles it instantly turns back on the ABS creating problems.

My suspicion is that the person who rebuilt the GT500 cheaped out on a replacement alternator and either installed a junk GT alternator (not GT500) or perhaps a defective one that maybe sends a surge at 2000 RPM. I just can't think of anything else that involves electronics and would be 2000 rpm sensitive.

I sure would appreciate if an expert from this forum could assist as I'm completely lost. 3 years with the car and I can't take it over 2000 without fearing the unknown...

Thank you in advance whoever you are who will be taking time out of your day to help me.

Carl

SmartSelect_20180325-113830_OneDrive.jpg

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Can't speak to what you may have now, I can only say my new bought 2007 had several alternator problems. It was replaced at least three times under warranty before it was resolved. Symptoms were the battery would die after sitting for 3 weeks or so. The alternator also stopped charging altogether. Since the last replacement maybe 7 years ago there have been no issues. I'm not sure, but there may have been an actual production issue with the original. 

Nice car, btw.

Edited by GT500FLYBOY

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I can’t speak to your problem either....well, specifically....however, I do know that the alternators (in the 500’s) were subjected to more issues than the other S197’s simply because of the hood louvre. In cars that sit outside OR are washed frequently without care given to keeping water from pouring through that louvre, the alternators failed faster than typical. 

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Salvage car with electrical gremlins?  This could take a while with many trips down dead end canyons.   Hope it's something easy but guessing probably not.   Good luck.

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was it a flood salvage, if so salt water and electrical do not mix and problems can pop up years later.

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No flood. Front end driver side collision. Flooded vehicles are an absolute nightmare when it comes to Gremlins... 

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34 minutes ago, I8A-VET said:

No flood. Front end driver side collision. Flooded vehicles are an absolute nightmare when it comes to Gremlins... 

So it sounds like this has happened since day 1.   Having to disconnect the ABS system is really bad.

Carefully inspect that area for wiring harness damage.   Wiring harness damage can also cause damage upstream to ECU and sensors.

Edited by twobjshelbys

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So my question that I would like to throw out to the experts is, what is triggered in the ECU when the Stang hits 2k RPM.  That may help narrow things down.  There is no loss in acceleration / torque now since the ABS is disengaged.  It's merely electronic. Also, the fuel pump must still be pumping since the engine doesn't cut out so I don't know where that comes to play in the ECU?   

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Damage to the right front and interaction with ABS is a HUGE CLUE!     I would start by looking at the ABS system sensors and cables.

You really shouldn't drive with the ABS disconnected.  Here's why.   You're driving along in the car and you have an unrelated passenger in the car.  You're in an accident and that person gets injured.  Or you hit another vehicle in ice and snow. come to find out had the ABS system been working properly the accident could have been avoided.  Guess who's gonna get sued? 

Edited by twobjshelbys

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The abs is actually perfectly functional. The reason for disconnection is that when I'm getting on the Shelby I naturally turn off the ABS.  When the Shelby goes over 2000 rpm the power / electronics cycles and reactivates the abs right in the middle of a wholeshot.. by now having it disconnected it eliminates the abs from kicking on.   

 

As for this problem from day one yes, this problem was from day one.  It was an eBay purchase from Mills Auto out of Ft Wayne IN.   Jim Mills assured me that he was a perfectionist and that there would be no issues.  When the car was delivered off of the car trailer the check engine light was on, it had one stock strut on the driver side and koni coilovers on passengers side, break and steering cables flapping around, rack bolts finger tight knocking every turn of the wheel... An absolute nightmare.  Little by little I have slayed each and every gremlin except this very mysterious problem.  I really should have sent the car back but it was so beautiful and I had so many sleepless nights of anticipation that I couldn't do it.. not to mention the sale was as-is there for my problem..  

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Do you mean ABS or traction/stability control?  The ABS cannot be defeated without pulling a fuse.

All of them use the ABS sensors for input and the ABS for the corrective action.  So get the car up to a good speed (on a safe, straight roadway) and stomp on brakes to lock them up and see if all sides behave correctly.

What is the check engine light code? 

There are lots of signs here, but you bought it "as is, where it is" so your only actions are to fix it or sell it.  Chances are you're not going to be able to do this yourself without some help from dealer with instrumentation. 

It's way too late to challenge the dealer on "yeah, it's a perfect car no problems" claim.  And you probably gave up the right to send it back (if you ever had that right) when you tightened your first bolt.

Good luck though.  It would be nice if you do get it fixed to follow up here.

Edited by twobjshelbys

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So sorry for the senior moment here. I'm not quite sure why I have been saying ABS when all the while I meant to say TCS.   So when the electronics cycles back on at 2000 RPM my Traction Control kicks back on killing my acceleration.  The only way to prevent this was by disconnecting the TCS.  My ABS is still intact, hooked up & fine and dandy.   I guess I could benefit by having a little coffee before I post to these forums.   

I nolonger have a check engine light issue.  That problem originated from the chop shop rebuild installing a larger CAI.  It was sucking too much air.  I ended up contacting the original owner and asking what was installed when the car was lund tuned.  He said Ford Racing... So I pulled the beautiful JLT carbon fiber CAI and installed the boring plastic Ford Rasing.. problem solved. 

Buyer beware...  I am pretty sure that I had no recourse when I bought the car since it was salvage and as is..  lesson learned on my part as a the cost of a flight to Indiana to inspect prior to purchase would have saved me 3 years of resurrecting Mrs. Shelby from her sad state of health. 

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Sounding more like a tuning issue. What tune is the car running? 

Edited by GT500FLYBOY

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11 minutes ago, GT500FLYBOY said:

Sounding more like a tuning issue. What tune is the car running? 

Good point.  Have you verified that the Ford tune was restored? 

The interaction with TCS is still suspicious and I would still recommend the ABS test.  I still think one of the ABS sensors isn't reading correctly but in that case I would also expect the ABS light to come on.

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I've never gone back to the factory tune as it has been upgraded to the Ford Racing TVS supercharger along with upgraded throddlebody, underdrive pull... It's set to 93 octane...  

Do you think it would run on the factory tune?  I could try it.  I have a hard time understanding how a tune could kill the electronics at 2000 rpm's but am certainly open minded. 

As for the ABS test, I have no warnjng lights coming on whatsoever. Breaking is one of the things the car does well.   Actually the car does run and stop perfectly. If I can get past the instrument pannel and stereo power cycling every time I get on it there would be no issues.  

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Did I miss your answer to Tony? 

 

What code is the car throwing ? You said you no longer have a code issue.....but what was it beforehand?

Edited by BIKEBOY

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It's been a while but I believe the code thrown was a P101 & P102 MAF out of range.  99% sure.

The driver's side was hit and caved in to the strut tower.  That pretty much shattered the Ford Racing CAI in which the car was custom tuned to buy John Lund Sr.    The person who rebuilt the salvage titled gt500 installed a really nice JLT Big Air carbon fiber CAI which threw the air to fuel ratio off triggering the code 101 & 102.  The car ran nice with the JLT but never would have passed NYS vehicle inspection with the engine light on.. 

I replaced the JLT (still have it) with a used Ford Racing CAI and haven't had that code again in 2+ years.  

That's all that I know about that.  

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Lol I was wondering "I think he means the traction control." 

Ok here's my stab at it. The early tunes did not compensate for the extra power so it sets off the "torque limit" when burning out (holeshot, "whole"shot, lol) and puts the car into limp mode. I've seen that happen before and see it reported on the internet. A new tune from a reputable tuner will have the compensating variables programmed in the tune.

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Don't put the stock tune back in unless you return everything to stock. You likely do need a new tune due to the CAI change.  You need to re-tune when you make any changes to intake and exhaust. CAI, TB, SC, damper, headers, pipes...whatever.  Any single change can make a huge difference in AFR. Get in touch with Jon Lund and get it fixed.

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Thank you for the advice as it is very much appreciated.  

It's important that you know the CAI was returned to that which it was tuned with.  I suppose there is a possibility that it's throwing something off but I show no fault codes...  The electronics cycling issue happened with both the JLT and the Ford Racing CAI.

Limp mode: I have heard of the TCS cutting fuel to drop acceleration but I have never heard of it cycling the electronics in the car.  The dash lights, guages, stereo... It's a possibility worth exploring though. To the best of my knowledge the car was tuned to the exact setup that it currently has by Lund. 

Whole Shot: The car will cycle the electronics in whole shot mode @ 2000 rpm BUT IT WILL also don't if I gently launch in 1st and crawl up to 2000 rpm's without breaking the tires loose.  

When I get a chance I might attempt tondatalog. It's been several years since I've played with the tuner but maybe I will see something going on there.  

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It could still be some kind of wiring or harness issue given you're pulling some g's under 'hole' shot acceleration. Tho it's strange it happens at 2000rpm. That's what makes me think tune.  Almost like a practical joke. 

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The tune has to be at least 5 years old I'm guessing. and yes, It is like a bad practical joke :( The owner who had the work done (crashed) and had the tune done by Lund never had this issue.  I suspect that the guy who rebuilt and sold me the car didn't mess with the tune or he would have at least dealt with the trouble colds thrown by the Big JLT CAI.   

My reason for suspecting the alternator stems from a conversation that I had last year with a Ford performance technician. The tech said that these cars tend to do all kinds of funky things when there is voltage irregularities. My thought is that when the engine spins at 2000 rpm the alternator throws a surge perhaps.  There is still salt on the roads here in Buffalo but once things clean up a bit I plan on disconnecting the alternator and testing it out.  What else is RPM related? The supercharger? Fuel pump electric draw? What would triggered at 2000 rpm even in "no load" launches. 

I'd love to try another tune if that doesn't work.  Does anyone know how to get around the whole $1000 Dyno + tune cost?  It seems crazy to pay $1000 for a tune when the car already has a top shelf tune in it...  Do you think that if I dataloged I might be able to see something? 

 

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If you have a Jon Lund tune, I'm sure he'd look at a log for you to see where it leads. If nothing else, you'll eliminate the tune. Test the alternator. Maybe replace with rebuilt. Or rebuild yourself. Sometimes diodes go bad and fluctuate voltage erratically. Easy fix. 

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Thanks GT500FLYBOY.. I'll be sure to fill everyone in on my progress.  I really appreciate any and all thoughts and ideas that everyone has brought forward.   

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If it was my car, based on what you said about whoever did the repairs may have  “cheaped out” on the alternator and maybe replaced it with a cheap or incorrect alternator,  then I would just yank it out and replace it with a new hi performance alternator and also replace the battery. The reason I would replace both at the same time would be that sometimes a malfunctioning alternator can wreak havoc on a battery. The other reason I would do a hi performance alternator is you mention you have an underdrive pulley and a tune. Underdrive pulleys were known to cause alternator/charging/electrical  issues on some early GT500’s.  If you replace both battery and upgrade the alternator at the same time and if your problem goes away , then great..... you are back in business. If not, at least once you replace both items you will eliminate your doubts about the alternator/battery being the problem and also wondering if your alternator is just an “el cheapo” and you will have eliminated those as a problem area. From there, you  can advance towards addressing  the tune if needed and possible electrical gremlins. The point is, you could go spend hundreds of dollars on tunes and gremlins chasing and they may do a bunch of electrical replacement items but then the root cause could still have been at the alternator/battery. JMHO. Best of luck.

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Very good point mhr1961. I'll probably be doing that based on your advice.  First and foremost I'll undo the connector off of the alternator and give that a shot.  If it still persists my thought is that it isn't a result of the alternator.  To be sure that it isn't an alternator battery combined cause I will throw my truck battery in the car for a test.   I really hope that's what the problem is because if not I'm quite sure it's electrical rather than tune related.   

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Anyone know if the supercharger could be playing a roll here?  The gremlin is so accurate @ exactly 2000 rpm that I'm thinking I'm may be triggered by the SC.  Keep in mind the problem occurs under load and a gradual rev to 2000. 

Just throwing it out there.. 

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Did you disable the alternator yet to see if it happens disconnected?

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Not yet. It's been a busy week... She's still tucked away for the long Buffalo winter.  I'll probably go get her this weekend and do a little testing.  That is as long as the Easter Bunny let's me.  Tis the season... 

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