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Grabberlicious

OCA - Oil Consumption Anonymous

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I think i’m in need of an intervention.  My ‘17 just moved past 2K miles and I had to add my second quart to get to the full marks.  How depressing - my voodoo has a drinking problem. :cry:

I have a couple weeks left to invest in Ford Protect Coverage and giving that some serious thought.  While I insist on wrenching my own whenever possible, I might be better served deferring the upcoming oil service to my local dealer and get my issue documented.  I’m sad and a little depressed believing my Feb. 17 build may suffer from my worst fear - the dreaded oil consumption problem.

Anyone know an appropriate support group?  I could use some positive comments. :shrug:

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We are the support group! 

Are you breaking it in by putting a load on the engine to seat the rings or are you driving around like grandpa?

Sounds like you have the right idea by having the dealer document the consumption. I have read on forums (Coyote and Boss owners) where some have had their motors replaced due to too much oil consumption. 

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2 hours ago, Secondo said:

We are the support group! 

Are you breaking it in by putting a load on the engine to seat the rings or are you driving around like BB?.. 

Sounds like you have the right idea by having the dealer document the consumption. I have read on forums (Coyote and Boss owners) where some have had their motors replaced due to too much oil consumption. 

Fixed it for ya Sean... 

In all seriousness though, man I feel your pain buddy! I’ve been teased on here about not driving my cars spirited. The guys that do the teasing don’t even know me. But let me tell ya, Sean is soooooo right. The break in on these motors is VERY critical. I have 2100 or so on my ‘16 and just changed the oil the first time a month ago or so. It was at full capacity on oil change day (about 1800) and still is. 

I followed the initial break in period of NO MORE THAN 5000RPM’s up to 500 miles, and NO STEADY SPEEDS (to include cruise control) and ROWING THROUGH THE GEARS CONTINUOUSLY all the while. And then after 500, began driving the car “as designed” up and down the entire RPM range. That 8250 scared the crap outta me day one, but soon got comfortable and familiar. 

 Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe I did the right thing....either way, I was nervous too in the beginning and I agree.....get it documented ASAP!!! 

 

Sorry to hear this man. :cry: 

 Chris 

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Question for Tony (twobjshelbys) on this subject....

Wouldn’t his tailpipe be wet or at minimum, damp with oil and or heavy soot, with this much consumption??? 

 

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1 hour ago, BIKEBOY said:

Question for Tony (twobjshelbys) on this subject....

Wouldn’t his tailpipe be wet or at minimum, damp with oil and or heavy soot, with this much consumption??? 

 

Hard to say.  Noone really knows when the consumption happens.  I suspect that it is at higher RPMs, and unless you're on it right away after starting cold the catalytic converter is probably hot so any unburned oil would probably get consumed by the catalytic. 

This engine is not going to go down well in Ford's history.   Note you still can't buy a Voodoo crate engine.   I suspect the engine is happiest when operating at high RPMs (just like the 427 sideoilers).  In fact, so much so that at least during breakin (and I don't know if the break in instructions say so) that it would be better to operate in a lower gear at higher RPMs.  I wonder if part of the deal is to get the engine operating temp up a little bit.

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I drive it like it’s the last 3 laps and we just went green again. OK...., maybe that’s an exaggeration, but I’m certainly not driving it like BB. ?

I broke it in like Ford instructed and since then been scaring the shit out of the Mrs. every time we’re out in it.  It’s getting run moderately hard on a regular basis.  I don’t lug the engine, I run over 3k rpm even if we’re just flatland cruising (it sings so sweetly).  So I don’t drive it like a geezer, it’s way too much fun for that. I also don’t beat the crap out of it.  I learned a long time ago that being fast doesn’t mean flogging it like a rented mule.  So while it gets to see 7K regularly now that it’s been loosened up, I’m certainly not banging it off the limiter in every upshift.  Also worth noting since I’ve also got a good amount of forged piston cold rattle, I let the oil warm to about 180 before I drive.  I “think” I’ve been doing the things a high-perf engine needs, but maybe I’m completely wrong.

My pipes are always sooted and each washing I have to clean-up with Naptha. I’ve been aware of the problem since before I travelled to Virginia to buy the car, but you place your bets and take your chances, right?   I realize the greater number of units have no oiling issues which is why I’m bummed.  Shit happens. It’ll get fixed.  

I think my biggest concern is having some trunk-monkey do an engine swap for the first time in his career with my car as patient #1.  I spent almost two decades behind the parts counter  at stealerships and I’m hopelessly tainted.  The labor pool is just polluted in my area and I avoid them in favor of wrenching my own.  Maybe FP can add some value on that topic when the time comes.  OR, maybe the process goes so smoothly that I get turned into a believer.  

You place your bets, you takes your chances. ?

 

 

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14 hours ago, BIKEBOY said:

Fixed it for ya Sean... 

In all seriousness though, man I feel your pain buddy! I’ve been teased on here about not driving my cars spirited. The guys that do the teasing don’t even know me. But let me tell ya, Sean is soooooo right. The break in on these motors is VERY critical. I have 2100 or so on my ‘16 and just changed the oil the first time a month ago or so. It was at full capacity on oil change day (about 1800) and still is. 

I followed the initial break in period of NO MORE THAN 5000RPM’s up to 500 miles, and NO STEADY SPEEDS (to include cruise control) and ROWING THROUGH THE GEARS CONTINUOUSLY all the while. And then after 500, began driving the car “as designed” up and down the entire RPM range. That 8250 scared the crap outta me day one, but soon got comfortable and familiar. 

 Maybe I’m just lucky, or maybe I did the right thing....either way, I was nervous too in the beginning and I agree.....get it documented ASAP!!! 

 

Sorry to hear this man. :cry: 

 Chris 

You're absolutely right, Chris.  I don't know anything about you either including your driving style, but i do know you're a good sport.  :victory:

PS: I always stir the box to keep it in the powerband. It's underwhelming below 3K.  My wife doesn't drive it which is why she's going to FPDS in Utah, not me.  She's terrified of it.

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2 hours ago, Grabberlicious said:

I drive it like it’s the last 3 laps and we just went green again. OK...., maybe that’s an exaggeration, but I’m certainly not driving it like BB. ?

I broke it in like Ford instructed and since then been scaring the shit out of the Mrs. every time we’re out in it.  It’s getting run moderately hard on a regular basis.  I don’t lug the engine, I run over 3k rpm even if we’re just flatland cruising (it sings so sweetly).  So I don’t drive it like a geezer, it’s way too much fun for that. I also don’t beat the crap out of it.  I learned a long time ago that being fast doesn’t mean flogging it like a rented mule.  So while it gets to see 7K regularly now that it’s been loosened up, I’m certainly not banging it off the limiter in every upshift.  Also worth noting since I’ve also got a good amount of forged piston cold rattle, I let the oil warm to about 180 before I drive.  I “think” I’ve been doing the things a high-perf engine needs, but maybe I’m completely wrong.

My pipes are always sooted and each washing I have to clean-up with Naptha. I’ve been aware of the problem since before I travelled to Virginia to buy the car, but you place your bets and take your chances, right?   I realize the greater number of units have no oiling issues which is why I’m bummed.  Shit happens. It’ll get fixed.  

I think my biggest concern is having some trunk-monkey do an engine swap for the first time in his career with my car as patient #1.  I spent almost two decades behind the parts counter  at stealerships and I’m hopelessly tainted.  The labor pool is just polluted in my area and I avoid them in favor of wrenching my own.  Maybe FP can add some value on that topic when the time comes.  OR, maybe the process goes so smoothly that I get turned into a believer.  

You place your bets, you takes your chances. ?

 

 

First off, I LOVE the way you write! :salute: Secondly, I too was a parts guy for a couple decades of my life as well. Perhaps you and I are “tainted”? We get to see all the bad and there’s unfortunately ALOT of it out there at some of these stealers. :fear: 

This is the main reason I have two S197’s with outstanding Takata airbag recalls and have ZERO intention of having them replaced. As well, it’s also why I decided to go it alone on the oil changes (it does help having a lift) and NOT having the oil hose recall done...all on my 350. No way I’m letting some lot lizard win the coin toss for who gets to test drive it afterwards! :nonono: 

You know, my ‘faux’ tailpipes are sooty too. I just thought that was from regular emissions. It’s not horrible by any means , just more of a nuisance back there. 

I suppose ya have no choice at this point, but to have it looked at. Perhaps you can scout a few stealers before you decide on one.....ask questions about senior techs...how clean does the shop look, etc.... that’s initially what I did when I first received the recall notice for the oil hose. Well, as it turned out, none of them gave me a warm and fuzzy, so I decided to wait on it. 

Your situation reminds me of piling up your car.......and not really wanting it back after it’s fixed. That’s just me. :( 

Damn dude, I’m sure sorry you’re going through this. I sincerely feel for ya. And thanks for the nice comments above. I appreciate it. 

Chris 

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9 hours ago, Grabberlicious said:

Also worth noting since I’ve also got a good amount of forged piston cold rattle, I let the oil warm to about 180 before I drive.

There seems to be some correlation between engines that have a lot of audible piston slap and engines with excessive oil consumption.

I drive my car gently until the oil is up past 190, and then I have fun.  It warms up more quickly driving it gently than it does idling in the driveway.

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oil consumption on a FPC engine is normal. Some seem to be a lot worse then others and while critical, Break in is not the only cause. I have heard of guys swu=itching to amzoil and having much better luck. I switched but I was not having problems to begin with. Document it and good luck

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On 7/4/2018 at 3:13 PM, BIKEBOY said:

I’ve read the same thing as Tim. Amsoil seems to really do the trick. 

And now I’m hopelessly conflicted, thank you.  I’m an Amsoil believer since the 1980’s when it was as scarce as CAM2 fuel in my area.  But I’m fortunate enough to have extended family with gear heads on each tree branch and was presented with a case of Amsoil Signature Series spec oil when I bought the car (brother-in-law owns a speed shop/built a spec car for him in 1987).

I may cancel my stealership appointment and do it myself for nothing more than the piece of mind.  The service writer was clueless, the Service Mgr wasn’t there that day, no one knew what oil was required and when I stopped by the parts department yesterday they didn’t have the right filter# in stock or have a parts order from Service.   God, I remember this nonsense like it was yesterday.  Not the warm-and-fuzzy feeling I was hoping for.

I'm gonna buy into Ford Protect this month (another thing I’m conflicted over) and extend out to 2025 since it’ll be around for a while. I suppose if I document the crap out of all I do, I at least have a leg to stand on.

cheers all. 

Edited by Grabberlicious
Edit for bad grammar.

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First I’m sorry to hear some of you guys are having oil consumption problems with the GT350 engine.

1.       Has anyone been able to document if the problem exists with newer cars?

2.       Also do the cars that use a lot of oil do so from day one?

   I’ll let you guys know if we end up with an oil consumption problem. We have a late build 2017 (July) and have not taken it easy on her. Our first track day was just after we passed the 500 mile mark. I kept the RPM below 6500 that day, reaching 120MPH on the longer straight at Pueblo Motorsports Park CO. We now have just over 2000 miles on our Shelby and the oil is still full.  Also I have added the oil traps on the valve cover to intake lines.

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I have an '18 (chassis J3045) and just passed the 600 mile mark with no discernable oil consumption.  I checked it when new, and the oil level hasn't budged.  I took it easy and broke it in per the manual for the first 100 miles.  I have been a little harder on it since :) and have also added the JLT oil separators on both sides.

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I'm just over 2k miles on my 18R which is daily driven. I kept it under 4k rpms for the first 1000 miles then changed the oil after the break in. Since then the oil level hasn't moved and I check it weekly

Edited by 07 Black Beauty
Added info

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 I have my 2017 just about a year now. Change the oil at 1000 miles and took it easy on it for the first 500 miles and then a little bit after that. Now has 3700 miles on it and I had to put in my first quart. I have never tracked the car, but I do get on it now and then. Probably not as much as some of you guys as I’m 66 years old probably driving it like a geezzer

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I have a 2017 GT350, Manufactured on 9/2017 (H6088) I did not see any oil consumption until 3500 miles

it started at using 1 Qt every 500 miles, now I have 8000 miles and its using 1 QT ever 150 miles now. 
Update. I took it to the dealer and they did the oil consumption test, 

1) oil change 
2) marked the Dipstick
3) Added Leak detector Dye
4) Return around 200 miles later for check up.

I Returned and the Tech found No leaks, The Engine used 1 1/2 qts in 220 miles. 
they called that Excessive oil consumption.  Ford said they will replace the motor.

another one bites the dust..  I really love this car but am I going to once they do this?
the tech said they have never replaced a motor in the GT350, yea that instills confidence... right..

 

Edited by GT350-H6088
update

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On 10/30/2018 at 11:35 PM, GT350-H6088 said:

I have a 2017 GT350, Manufactured on 9/2017 (H6088) I did not see any oil consumption until 3500 miles

it started at using 1 Qt every 500 miles, now I have 8000 miles and its using 1 QT ever 150 miles now. 
Update. I took it to the dealer and they did the oil consumption test, 

1) oil change 
2) marked the Dipstick
3) Added Leak detector Dye
4) Return around 200 miles later for check up.

I Returned and the Tech found No leaks, The Engine used 1 1/2 qts in 220 miles. 
they called that Excessive oil consumption.  Ford said they will replace the motor.

another one bites the dust..  I really love this car but am I going to once they do this?
the tech said they have never replaced a motor in the GT350, yea that instills confidence... right..

 

Do you have another dealership near by that might be more capable of handling the replacement? I wouldnt want my car to be the Guinea pig for the dealers first motor swap. Worst case you'd have to redo the consumption test for another dealership to do the swap.

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I for one dont care if they replace the motor in mine if it needs it as long as the R motor gets replaced with the R motor

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An update on my oil consumption issue.

I purchased the 2017 Ruby Red / Black Stripes Track Pack Shelby GT 350 off the Showroom floor on May 10th 2018
it had been sitting since October 2017, the car had 4 miles in the odometer. 

The first 2000 miles I had the oil changed. at 3500 mi I noticed the oil level was low, so I put in 3 qts. I continually checked the 
oil at every fill up and noticed that I was at least 1qt low at every fill up. then it increased to 1.5 qts then 2 qts. 
at 8000 mi, I took it to the dealer and they performed an oil consumption test. After several trips back for checkups they determined 

that I was using 1.5 qt every 220 miles they also noted that Cyl 1 & 2 spark plugs had oil on them.  They said that they were waiting 
for Fords approval to replace the engine, the service writer said that they never replaced an engine in the GT350 and have never 
heard of any issues.  I was concerned about this comment and decided to take my car somewhere else.

I went to Ted Britt Ford in Fairfax, VA because I met their Chief Master Tech who is a Shelby expert who has replaced engines in the GT350.

Unfortunately, We had to be the Oil Consumption test again. The test results were the same 1qt every 120 miles.
I dropped the Car off on Monday February, 4th 2019, for them to pull the valve covers and intake, do a borescope for Ford.
It took 15 min after all results were submitted and Ford approved an engine replacement. 

This was Thursday February 7th,  by February 15th the car is ready. 

I have only Tracked my car twice

The date of manufacture of my car is 9/2017 [H6088]
Completely Stock Engine no mods or catch cans
Oil consumption was 1 quart every 120  miles
35% highway use - I did drive the Car to Erie PA at 1000 miles (700 miles Highway) 

I did not drive the Car hard until after my first oil change (2000 mi) 

I took pictures of the Borescope images.
Remember this engine had 9500 miles on it.

I believe this is the Head, near a valves

dEBGRHq.jpg?1

nKC1HI4.jpg?1

Not sure but he was pointing out the metal chunks
0ssuqX7.jpg?1

Notice the oil pooling
ZmxpNVL.jpg?1

This is the Cylinder wall
EUn2Bxa.jpg?1

The tech that the rings did not set properly Cylinder 2 was the worst, 3 was almost as bad and 1 was the least damaged.

He also pointed out that the new engine is a different part number.

4W0YCCP.jpg?1

Build Date  December 12, 2018
the Engine build is a 2019 GT350R motor.

And no the REP does not equal Replacment it means Romeo Engine Plant
and the GT350R the "R" does not mean replacment

notice the KA (2019)  555 is the GT350R engine Code, the GT350 is 557

the code along the bottom is EF0AA also equals Romeo
the 18346 (Engine Build Date in Julan Date format)
2200 (I dont know, but all engine ID stickers are the same.
01 (the number of that engine built that day)


the tech said that had to be replace the Oil Pressure Sensor Plug on my 2017 GT350
I quess it was not compatable with the 2019 GT350R one?

 

Edited by GT350-H6088

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Nice that you got a small upgrade for your troubles

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Wow.  Makes me glad I didn't jump out and buy a 350. 

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As far as the engine goes, according to Ford ,there is no difference between the two engines themselves…the internals are all the same and they both put out the same horsepower, so there is no real upgrade….except for maybe the sticker.

 

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2 hours ago, mhr1961 said:

As far as the engine goes, according to Ford ,there is no difference between the two engines themselves…the internals are all the same and they both put out the same horsepower, so there is no real upgrade….except for maybe the sticker.

 

Well I too believed the engines were the same but no longer do. There must be a reason Ford has two different part numbers for the GT350/GT350R engines as no auto manufacturer would want to create additional inventory work and/or record keeping  if there wasn't a reason.

Although Ford promotes these engines as "hand assembled" there is going to be variances between each engine from the original casting to the machining process, some engines will be closer to ultimate perfect specs compared to others that are in the tolerance range but not necessarily optimal. Could Ford be designating engines with better tolerances as a R model engine knowing that R models are more likely to be track driven?

Could an R model engine have a different head gasket or oil pump? Different timing chain or valves?

Could an R model engine have a higher quality metal for the forged internal parts? For example some of the Chrysler Shelby's had engine components cast with metal having a higher Nickel content where a more generic Chrysler vehicle using the exact same engine did not. Chrysler never pointed out these metallurgy differences to the consumer but there were differences.

There must be something to this and my best guess is the tighter tolerance builds or some part that is of higher quality.

Steven

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4 hours ago, SAI-Steven said:

Well I too believed the engines were the same but no longer do. There must be a reason Ford has two different part numbers for the GT350/GT350R engines as no auto manufacturer would want to create additional inventory work and/or record keeping  if there wasn't a reason.

Although Ford promotes these engines as "hand assembled" there is going to be variances between each engine from the original casting to the machining process, some engines will be closer to ultimate perfect specs compared to others that are in the tolerance range but not necessarily optimal. Could Ford be designating engines with better tolerances as a R model engine knowing that R models are more likely to be track driven?

Could an R model engine have a different head gasket or oil pump? Different timing chain or valves?

Could an R model engine have a higher quality metal for the forged internal parts? For example some of the Chrysler Shelby's had engine components cast with metal having a higher Nickel content where a more generic Chrysler vehicle using the exact same engine did not. Chrysler never pointed out these metallurgy differences to the consumer but there were differences.

There must be something to this and my best guess is the tighter tolerance builds or some part that is of higher quality.

Steven

While there have been anecdotal reports on some websites that there are differences in the GT350 and GT350R engines, to my knowledge there has been no reports or evidence directly from Ford that the engines are different. Just because one engine may have an R in the bar code sticker doesn’t mean it is different. It could just be a manufacturing ID on the tag to show that particular engine will go in an R model or a non R model for production control. If I recall there is a resonator set up that goes on the non R model but that is downstream of the engine of course, but it could affect the manufacturing process but not the engine build. If there were two different engines I would think Ford would have such in their parts inventory listing. There is much discussion over this issue on other forums but until Ford announces something I will stay in the camp that the engines are the same (except for the tag). There are reports that they have upgraded or used a newer ring set up on the engine since the car was introduced, but  that was a across the board change for the R as well as the non R. With all the EPA/CAFE testing to be done when and engine set up is changed, I just don’t logically see Ford taking on the economic expense to have two different engines go through such rigorous tests for such small production,  and if they were different Ford would be marketing that fact. Why tweak an R engine for the better and not advertise it? No argument here, just pointing out some thought process and the fact that there has been no official announcement from Ford about there being two different engines.

 

Edited by mhr1961

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At this point its unlikely Ford will "officially" say anything so we will most likely need to hear from one of the engine builders or perhaps a close study of the dealership parts catalog will answer the question one way or another.

As far as we know Ford did not id & issue separate part numbers for 5.4 engines with one engine  being for the GT500 and another engine  being for the GT500KR so there must be a reason Ford did this now.

Stay tuned.

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I also believed there was no difference but ther is significan evidence now that there is. The cam phazers in the R engine are a G3 part number vs the F3 GT350 part. 

The response below was reportedly from a Ford Engineer involved with the Voodo

"The GR3Z phasers are the low leak phasers, definitely recommended for your type of racing, and the ones in our kit. The current data shows they go in the GT350R only. It looks like they may have been introduced after the 2016MY.

With the FR3Z phasers, you could experience a condition where the cams start to oscillate due to excessive leakage of the phaser and then the PCM will park the cams to initial position due to the fault. Oil viscosity/quality/temperature plays a large part in this as well.
"
 

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Since I opened this thread, I guess I should update on my chassis - I did buy into Ford Protect and have clocked 3750 total miles onto the odo.  The first oil service was a whole other thread to itself; I won't go into it here.  That said, Amsoil is in the sump and consumption is about half of what it was so not so objectionable.  It's interesting that with Amsoil in the system, not only do I get to temp faster, the piston skirt rattle seems somewhat less pronounced.  That could simply be a placebo since I've taken to letting it idle in the driveway for 15 minutes before moving out.

Another point worth noting is while installing the Ford Performance exhaust system (which I found at a remarkably low, almost embarrassing price) I can see the exhaust trim on the left is holding more carbon deposits that the right.  I'm pretty sure that's an indicator from the consumption.   I've been showing it the upper half of the tach quite a bit more than last season and enjoying the snot out of making it work hard. Will be interesting to see if consumption moves to either side of where it is now.

All-in-all, I love my chassis, I'm not ruminating over adding a quart every 1500 and I get myself to Lime Rock Park A LOT more than I used to.  So it's all good. 😁

 

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